IMPORTANT:Time to fight and not give in

[viking1488]

I agree. Even though I'll be backing the union I have no confidence in the leadership after their abysmal handling of the last official I.A. and I fear the usual pathetic climbdown.

i just hope your not right or we're all f***ed mate

[jeifi]

Pinstripe I have to disagree , conference is the soveign body of the CWU and time and time again conference instructs that all national agreements should be provide a framework for local negotiations.

The reason being is no two offices are`s alike let alone different offices around the country. Yes some offices get worse deals then others but how would you ever sell a deal which meant that the strong offices which have used their strength to get the good deals should be sold out.

Any national agreement which meant you simply implment in your offices the full terms of any national deal without local negotations will be sucide for this union and would allow Royal Mail the ablility to attack the stronger officers to make them fall in line with the weaker offices.

surely one thing at atime we need to let these thieves and vagabonds that run our country and our businesses that if they are going to dip their sticky selfish thieving hands in the pot of money that we as an union and as a country of grafters created then tell us all there isnt enough for any one else once the get their grubby hands on and say things like we need to save money and theres no payrise this year lads and i know of one lad who was aked quite seriously what he thought of the idea that delivery staff work one day for free lol to help royal mails recovery we need to tell them to shove it where it will recieve no light and wake our union up lets make it cear we just want fair play and will fight for that basic right if necessary :lfo

[blaze3]

What i can't understand is why our office (in London) are continuing these one day strikes when from what i hear most of the country are already doing the things that my office are fighting against. Surely this is a case of after the horse has bolted.
Strike on Friday work cleared by Tuesday with all SD items delivered on time, these strikes have had absolutely no affect on the business in fact it has saved them a fortune in unpaid wages.
The reason we have this problem is because the CWU and RM came up with the most loosely worded agreement i have ever witnessed in 20 years working for RM.
This agreement has put pressure on CWU reps and Local Managers and they will be blamed for the consequences of this disaster.

[numan]

I agree Blaze3. The members should've ignored the CWU leadership and voted no to the agreement, as some of us did. Hayes, Ward and those weaklings on the PLC who went along with them should've been booted out and replaced with people who were willing to finish what we started. When some of us complained about changes to the pension scheme being tied in with the agreement we were promised by the union that wouldn't be the case, a promise which has turned out to be the bullshit that it sounded at the time. Sorry to sound so defeatist but it's time to face facts, we were sold down the river.

[numan]

Meant to say PEC

[axeman]

What i can't understand is why our office (in London) are continuing these one day strikes when from what i hear most of the country are already doing the things that my office are fighting against. Surely this is a case of after the horse has bolted.

Not quite as most are under the impression that these 'adjustments' are trials but belive me even these offices that have been forced are not in happy bunny mode and are as we speak invoking rule 13 ? for a ballot

[stokes11eg]

:sad:Said it before--if you accept the so caled 'trials' and work them for a number of weeks--in law it is tantamount to
agreeing to the change-- no matter how badly these so called trials have worked in most offices.they become the norm. do not do it or listen to the mob telling you if it does not work, we go back to the status-quo.Ha.

[jcjd]

What i can't understand is why our office (in London) are continuing these one day strikes when from what i hear most of the country are already doing the things that my office are fighting against. Surely this is a case of after the horse has bolted.
Strike on Friday work cleared by Tuesday with all SD items delivered on time, these strikes have had absolutely no affect on the business in fact it has saved them a fortune in unpaid wages.
The reason we have this problem is because the CWU and RM came up with the most loosely worded agreement i have ever witnessed in 20 years working for RM.
This agreement has put pressure on CWU reps and Local Managers and they will be blamed for the consequences of this disaster.

All strikes have an effect , from small acorns ect... This is a dispute we can't lose , many areas in the country have been picked off one by one, but RM know that if london holds firm they have a problem. We in london along with now many other offices can turn the tide if we stick together.

[dvbuk55]

Pinstripe I have to disagree , conference is the soveign body of the CWU and time and time again conference instructs that all national agreements should be provide a framework for local negotiations.

The reason being is no two offices are`s alike let alone different offices around the country. Yes some offices get worse deals then others but how would you ever sell a deal which meant that the strong offices which have used their strength to get the good deals should be sold out.

Any national agreement which meant you simply implment in your offices the full terms of any national deal without local negotations will be sucide for this union and would allow Royal Mail the ablility to attack the stronger officers to make them fall in line with the weaker offices.

I fail to see the logic in your argument here dingo. What you are saying is that we should have national agreements with local negotiations - and isn't that why we are in the position we are in? The 2007 agreement was precisely that and we have the position that weaker offices are picked off which then puts the stronger offices in a weaker position - which is exactly what many forecast. RM are saying, and whether true or not, that x amount of offices have already implemented the changes and our office is one over the last two years. It is very difficult to get negotiations off the ground, as the leadership have found, if RM will not sit at the table and rely solely on EA. I have asked before - exactly why has it taken so long for these problems to be taken on board - I think I know the answer but it would be interesting to see what your take is on the subject.

[Martin Walsh]

Look no two offices are the same , let alone different areas of the country. Offices vary from being offices which rely on large overtime levels to offices which require hardly any overtime.

In addition attendances vary some perfrer one week off in six others a rotating 5 day week, others a fixed day off or even a 4 day week.

Thats why all National Agreements have the facility of local variations and negotiations. Why would anyone volunter for being a local rep if all they had to do was implement the national agreement rather then negoatie what suited their office from a local agreement.

Yes that does mean some offices get better deals then others but thats is how we have always operated as a union and have the highest ratio of members outside the fire brigade as members.

Royal Mail want to introduce standard operating procedures which mean everyone is the same in working pratices and costs is that really what we want , because what your doing now and the way you work as now will possbilby change for the worse is that really what you want.

Personally I want a union which is strong both in the workplace because they negotiate things on behalf of the members in their office as well as a strong national union.

[dvbuk55]

Look no two offices are the same , let alone different areas of the country. Offices vary from being offices which rely on large overtime levels to offices which require hardly any overtime.

In addition attendances vary some perfrer one week off in six others a rotating 5 day week, others a fixed day off or even a 4 day week.

Thats why all National Agreements have the facility of local variations and negotiations. Why would anyone volunter for being a local rep if all they had to do was implement the national agreement rather then negoatie what suited their office from a local agreement.

Yes that does mean some offices get better deals then others but thats is how we have always operated as a union and have the highest ratio of members outside the fire brigade as members.

Royal Mail want to introduce standard operating procedures which mean everyone is the same in working pratices and costs is that really what we want , because what your doing now and the way you work as now will possbilby change for the worse is that really what you want.

Personally I want a union which is strong both in the workplace because they negotiate things on behalf of the members in their office as well as a strong national union.

You seem to think that there is nothing wrong with one office having better working conditions than others, whereas I feel that we should strive to have a national agreement that eliminates that very premise. Why? Because that is the reason why we are facing the problems we now face. You seem to think that local negotiation is the answer and I think that is precisely the problem. There are areas that have no representation locally and some where representation is faced with a strong management or where support for the union is weak and that should not be the basis for agreements locally. We now face local ballots which may or may not be successful and where there is some considerable delay in balloting. If agreements were truly national then there would be only one ballot and that would be a national ballot. I fear that local action will wither before a national ballot takes place and will actually weaken it.

I do however appreciate your commitment and those who have balloted and taken action across the country - it is a pity that the problems were not faced and addressed sooner by the leadership.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk I think we will have to agree to disagree on this matter. I know that all offices start from different basis for example their offices with 50% part timers and then there are others who have none are we saying we should all have the same , there are offices with 4 day weeks and offices with one week off in 6 and there others with Monday to Friday are you suggusting we all be the same.

Look at pay their is reserved rights OPGs , London Weighting , RRiS payments and even Scottish distant island payments as well as different bonus payments ex PBS are you suggusting that we all be the same.

Cause if you are then how are you going to comphensate those who are going to lose out as a result of everyone having the same. Or do you believe that Royal Mail will bring everyone up to the best terms.

Where the CWU have done well was on the election material when London was getting the best deal and others were getting nothing the CWU managed to get everyone the London Deal but that was some years ago when things seemed so easy ago.

However the concept of a union is to promote members best intrests and i dont see creating a winners and losers charter as the way forward did as the answer going forward. Members wishlist are different in all offices and to have a national agreement which couldt be altered to suit each office would not have the support of the members in my opinion.

[dvbuk55]

I do understand your point about different working practices between offices and that there are differences in pay structures and in truth I am not against some of those differences. Obviously a Mail Centre and a Delivery Office are different as are other disciplines within the group but we should have a standardised working day and working week within the various start/finish times. One thing we should all be united against is the constant denigration of full time duties. Our office has employed more and more part timers, some have had buy down, myself included (but only with union approval) - and you would think that would improve the chances of part time to full time over a period - which has been 3 years, but no such thing.

I worry that the vote might fail and that indeed would open the floodgates to EA and even more bullying and harassment - I mean it isn't as though the changes are improving the service.

[Tlotoxl]

This is a completely unwinnable fight.

The sooner people accept this the better

You just go and ask the average man on the street if it is that outrageous that if I get paid 40 hour a week I should expected to work somewhere vaguely near 40 hours.

Last week I noted my hours. I worked 37 hours. I got paid for 54.2 hours, I worked my day off and did 2 half deliveries OT. (BTW I have far from the easiest walk in my office)

I don't rush around like a maniac, I take my breaks. I don't come in early, I don't skive off sorting.

The solution is simple - do the absorption if you have time, if you don't, then take it out and bring it back.


Royal Mail is not some lazy government funded skive anymore, if you don't like it get out - but even with all the new rules you will still not find a job even remotely easy for as much pay anywhere else.

[POSTMAN]

This is a completely unwinnable fight.

The sooner people accept this the better

You just go and ask the average man on the street if it is that outrageous that if I get paid 40 hour a week I should expected to work somewhere vaguely near 40 hours.

Last week I noted my hours. I worked 37 hours. I got paid for 54.2 hours, I worked my day off and did 2 half deliveries OT. (BTW I have far from the easiest walk in my office)

I don't rush around like a maniac, I take my breaks. I don't come in early, I don't skive off sorting.

The solution is simple - do the absorption if you have time, if you don't, then take it out and bring it back.


Royal Mail is not some lazy government funded skive anymore, if you don't like it get out - but even with all the new rules you will still not find a job even remotely easy for as much pay anywhere else.

We're with ya pal,we'll do the absorption no probs if we have time.

Have a shuftie around the board to see why most of us have got the hump.

Oh and welcome to the site.