Royal Mail in 11th hour bid to stop postal strike

[borders]

you guys are entitled to your opinions on taylorism, and i respect that. It's unrealsitic to think that an individual can work at 100% for 8 hours in that type of environment, however, i would expect at least 60-75% effort over the course of a day.

What you seem to forget is that these are the values worked to in other similar industries, if the individual isn't performing it isn't too long before they are found out and shown the door. Like it or not you work in a production line-style job.

RM procedure is so long and complex that half the managers cant be bothered to exercise their full right.........something you have the CWU to be thankful for

for the chap who asked what the standard was for sorting letters, flats and packets into a standard frame, the combined value is 25. I think this is actually pretty low considering walk sequenced traffic is on the increase.

its really interesting that no one has replied to my comments on strikes during a recession.........it will inevitably go national in the next 8 weeks.

What do you think public opinion will be towards the CWU and royal mail staff?

with regards to a national strike , this is far from inevitable, seems RM solicitors are on the ball and challenging the Unions ballet proceedures. read this thread......A statement from the London Divisional Committee by Dingo in the Blue Shirts Section.

[borders]

you guys are entitled to your opinions on taylorism, and i respect that. It's unrealsitic to think that an individual can work at 100% for 8 hours in that type of environment, however, i would expect at least 60-75% effort over the course of a day.

What you seem to forget is that these are the values worked to in other similar industries, if the individual isn't performing it isn't too long before they are found out and shown the door. Like it or not you work in a production line-style job.

RM procedure is so long and complex that half the managers cant be bothered to exercise their full right.........something you have the CWU to be thankful for

for the chap who asked what the standard was for sorting letters, flats and packets into a standard frame, the combined value is 25. I think this is actually pretty low considering walk sequenced traffic is on the increase.

its really interesting that no one has replied to my comments on strikes during a recession.........it will inevitably go national in the next 8 weeks.

What do you think public opinion will be towards the CWU and royal mail staff?

maybe this goes someway to explaining why many people on here are so fed up with RM management...........Dave Ward, CWU deputy general secretary, said: "Royal Mail has broken the 2007 agreement which committed the company to negotiating modernisation with the CWU.


"We are now seeing cuts but not modernisation in the postal industry and there's only so long before this is going have a major impact on services. Many rural services in Scotland will be put under threat unless a plan can be secured for the future of Royal Mail.


"The company is failing on the big picture. Machinery is not being brought in and deliveries have not been re-designed.


"We are offering Royal Mail and the government a three month no-strike deal if they fulfil the agreement to engage the CWU over modernisation and move to get the company on a sound footing for the future."

[borders]

Its called Executive Action......

[norbert]

Its called Executive Action......

Problem is the top down , Regimented or Autocratic style which most businesses have rejected .

For instance I watched a documentary on Broadmoor , A NHS Senior manager posed as a student nurse saying he was to be used as required on the wards there . I believe you have to put the time in on the hospital wards to pass out as a charge nurse .

Then and only then , things were changed and reformed . However in this instance I've some respect for that senior manager unlike :lfo & :cfo .

As for a strike going national , RM have tried the oldest 50's spiv trick in the book orchestrating strikes , it's all quite deliberate and intentional divide and rule but we all speak a load of nonsense apparently .

Maybe we should all make a appointment for Big Al's lobotomy lab

Sorry but this is all too much like Hellmail in 2007 , the union's job is to find something wrong and there's people on here that are very good at it ; but RM only hear what they want to hear .

As for very polarized public opinion , it's usually RM managers masquerading as Joe Public saying sack the lot of them and replace them with polish immigrants and similar victorian right wing dribble because the BNP site has gone down or too much time on their hands

[BELIAL]

y i would expect at least 60-75% effort over the course of a day.

Would you? Who are you? Who defines 100% effort? Who decides the length of the day?Does Adam put in his 75% effort for two days a week to earn £3,000,000?

[andy2007]

I'm sorry I'm joining this a bit late Damcka, so some of my points have already been covered. But here goes:
1) As Teebs has already pointed out: RM have been in breach of Phase 4 of the Pay and Modernisaton Agreement for some time now.

2) RM have actually had the gall, to accuse the CWU of failing to honour this same agreement. They have explained that accusation, by only quoting part of the agreement. Specifically: They quote the part which agrees to speed up the pace of change. But they fail to include the part which calls on RM and the CWU to work together, to achieve this.

3) As you've said yourself: Many of us appreciate the need for change, and quickly. But without the CWU to "watch our backs". We're understandably nervous of any changes in our working conditions.

4) Although I work in an RDC and not in Deliveries or an MC, I don't have first hand knowledge of the attitudes shown in there. But I have been on here long enough to know the sort of things that go on. And quite frankly, I don't recognise the attitudes you describe. Although, we all know that there are a small minority of p*** takers, in ANY large Business. So you may just have been unlucky so far.

5) An example of this breach of Phase 4, can be seen in the RDC Network at the moment. It's called World Class Mailing (WCM). The scheme itself, has great potential to improve things. Particularly in Health and Safety, which is of particular importance in RM, as others have already pointed out.

However: The Union found out via a leak, that it was going to be introduced Nationwide, before the Trials had been completed. When they confronted RM Management about it: They confirmed that the initiative was going Live, and told the Reps all about it, in detail. But there was NO room for ANY negotiations.

Why did we want negotiations?
Because we need safeguards in place, to ensure that it is implemented properly. For example: They've been touting the first of 7 stages of the H&S section of the initiative, as an improvement. But it's already been in place for over 2 years. They just didn't bother to do it properly (the number of times I've had to complain to a H&S Rep about that! ).

There are of course other examples. But that's for another Thread.

6) If RM had negotiated properly with the CWU, instead of railroading this scheme in. We could potentially, be looking at an excellent scheme, with the potential to improve things across the board. Instead, they FAILED to do that. And already, we've seen dubious interpritations of how it should work. Which has actually made some sections LESS efficient than they were before. But due to the extra paperwork, it's easier to find out who to blame, should anything go wrong.

7) As a result of that situation: We've been advised by the CWU not to co-operate with the scheme. Although, there are those, who have ignored that advise. Hence the knowledge of what happens, when it's implemented (see point 6).

So, Damcka. Do you have an explination as to why we should just accept these kinds of problems?
Personally, I can't see any reason why we should.

[stokes11eg]

Damaka--it may be the case that you can work full volume as it were in some industries--just you go out on a day like tuesday,whrn you have almost melted with the heat before starting a walk. go at full pace for 4+hours- and see what happens.There is no other industry that expects this--Even when My Dad was in the Army, in Burma, his route Marches with pack only covered 8 miles maximum, at a lesser speed that R/M expect.

[norbert]

Damaka--it may be the case that you can work full volume as it were in some industries--just you go out on a day like tuesday,whrn you have almost melted with the heat before starting a walk. go at full pace for 4+hours- and see what happens.There is no other industry that expects this--Even when My Dad was in the Army, in Burma, his route Marches with pack only covered 8 miles maximum, at a lesser speed that R/M expect.

And with rest stops, water stops, food stops and toilet stops. The added bonus of the Army giving sun cream whilst our caring employer DONT claiming H&S bullsh*t issues to do with allergies is a crock of sh*t that tells us we can die of skin cancer because we aint got the brains to stop using a product if we get itchy but they are to tight to give us the Hypoallergenic stuff. Still i am not suprised after all they can and do sack us for not wearing non safety equipment in the form of helmets shoes and boots of dubious quality and see no problems with that either.

He's parroting off what he's been told to parrot off , too obvious RM always lay it on too thick .

It all sounds too similar to one in a comment on this in a national newspaper piece - all this cr** about chanting posties . It's also too similar to Hellmail in 2007 when they'd a forum , same propaganda & tactics .

Sounds like a Senior Manager or more likely , one of their lackies

Tends to be RM senior & area managers that put fingers in their ears as most of " the good points " have been demolished on here [/b]

[Night Tonic]

I suppose that someone from the "outside" looking in would probably have a "Mad World" point of view in how things are run in this "multi-billion pound" industry.

No, whats worse is that you should feel the need to even make that statement and a good indicator/example of whats wrong and why every other operator is miles more efficient than us. Its not modern equipment thats needed, 10,000 volts would be better bet.

Insults and fingers in ears is no substitute for open eyes when someone takes the trouble to make some good points.

[BELIAL]

[ every other operator is miles more efficient than us.

Can you post the figures to back up this bold claim,it would be most helpful.
Armed with the facts that you supply we could then do a comparison to see how our efficiency would compare if we double our charges to bring them into line with other operators
Brings to mind the figures from "Case not made"

[norbert]

[ every other operator is miles more efficient than us.

Can you post the figures to back up this bold claim,it would be most helpful.
Armed with the facts that you supply we could then do a comparison to see how our efficiency would compare if we double our charges to bring them into line with other operators
Brings to mind the figures from "Case not made"

Compass Group or the Union found that RM was "confusing" profitability with efficiency . There was no allowances made for prices , operations , how different the other countries were etc .

Kindest thing you can say is that RM tend to be " very selective " with their figures

:lfo & :cfo - The Emperors with no clothes

[k979aaa]

[ every other operator is miles more efficient than us.

Can you post the figures to back up this bold claim,it would be most helpful.
Armed with the facts that you supply we could then do a comparison to see how our efficiency would compare if we double our charges to bring them into line with other operators
Brings to mind the figures from "Case not made"

Compass Group or the Union found that RM was "confusing" profitability with efficiency . There was no allowances made for prices , operations , how different the other countries were etc .

Kindest thing you can say is that RM tend to be " very selective " with their figures

:lfo & :cfo - The Emperors with no clothes

Of course does not profitablity = bonus and efficiency = sevice or lack of service a conflict of interest if ever their was one if in doubt play the fiddle and hope for the best it served :lfo right look at leeds united and ASDA!. They are nowhere and where is he!. :lfo

[axeman]

Think we all know that night tonic sings from one hymn sheet .The figgures won't ever materialise as we all know he speaks without foundation / knowledge of his own mind

[norbert]

Think we all know that night tonic sings from one hymn sheet .The figgures won't ever materialise as we all know he speaks without foundation / knowledge of his own mind

whilst time traveling too apparently which to be fair is very modern , competitive , efficient and flexible - as someone said " I p***ed myself laughing reading that part of the thread "

Hellmail and certain pro RM posters on another site trip themselves up - I'm afraid to say

[Night Tonic]

I suppose Axeman, that when working to rule and strike action actually equals efficiency or even job protection, you might have a valid argument. Not seen it yet - ever. I've made it plain I think the CWU as a limp biscuit with some dim members in its fold, but I don't see industrial action as the answer. That just makes sure we lose more jobs. I'm entitled to that point of view as much as you are yours.