Royal Mail in 11th hour bid to stop postal strike

[norbert]

just about to make a similar comment ' parcelhorse '
A walkout just waiting to happen with idiot managers like this with an obsession to do lil ad's bidding for a few extra brownie points no wonder mandy said there was no managerial skils in this country sometime i think he's on the money with this guy

Remember Boggie 40 off Hellmail ? - " I hope you lot can afford your " Socialist Worker " Subscriptions out of your giros - Any slight against your colleagues and you'll find your selves sharing a cell with hairy knuckle draggers who'll serenade you to sleep " - " There is a desire to break your union like nothing else "

This is the " Dim Dum " that was involved in very high level policy discussions and for all the " I lost money in the 80's whilst on strike for nothing " was allegedly fond of sausage , chips and beans

The other RM " classic " was sour grapes due to this site being mentioned in The Guardian that tried the " I only asked a simple question and they all turned on me , even the site owner joined in " routine - uncannily very similar to something that Mrs White said in a "dog whistle" article

[axeman]

Ah a PHd ! so that makes you instantly a better person than the ''posties''on here Wise up buddy before you get your ars* kicked by a postie with more than you can handle just because they dont have a ba,ma,phd ........... never ever underestimate your opponents

[brothermagrew]

Then perhaps when Royal Mail fully engage in proper constructive dialogue with the CWU instead of diktat and executive action the climate of culture that you refer to will have a modicum of dignity and respect. And things will progress further in a timely manner through negotiated National Agreements. Love it or loathe it the Sawyer Report into industrial relations makes good reading.

[norbert]

Ah a PHd ! so that makes you instantly a better person than the ''posties''on here Wise up buddy before you get your ars* kicked by a postie with more than you can handle just because they dont have a ba,ma,phd ........... never ever underestimate your opponents

there's uniformed people who could run sections or offices but they don't want to . Sorry mate but I'm afraid you'll learn the hard way how RM really works .

Also there's a lot of ex services personnel on here , some were even true blue tories , then after wising up after a few months they become CWU loyal , secondly as they are used to things being run better and a better chain of command they can qualify exactly how and why ; RM is so badly run & managed .

The tribalism works both ways - " A management style based on a peculiar brand of confrontation " - SNP - let's face it :lfo & :cfo were put in to soften people up for privatization .

It's not necessarily irrational hatred for management - it's hatred for the RM system and NOBODY is immune from it . The rot starts at the top :lfo :cfo :mfo

[damcka]

if staff directed as much effort into helping eachother, rather than irrationally hating management, then maybe the divide wouldn't exist.

I feel worlds apart from the mind set of the staff. If i saw a colleague struggling, then i'd help them, not screw them. which is what i see time and again. I have to force the staff to help eachother out, all i ever hear is "i dont work with him", "why are you asking me", "thats not my duty", "not my job", and other such moans that i can't be bothered to type.

i just don't get it.....

[axeman]

Totally agree with you norbert quite a few do indeed have extremly good qualfications but have no urge to become a management 'tool' but could easily run it better than the ones currently purporting to be skilled in all ares of royal fail ...'management'

[TrueBlueTerrier]

if staff directed as much effort into helping eachother, rather than irrationally hating management, then maybe the divide wouldn't exist.

I feel worlds apart from the mind set of the staff. If i saw a colleague struggling, then i'd help them, not screw them. which is what i see time and again. I have to force the staff to help eachother out, all i ever hear is "i dont work with him", "why are you asking me", "thats not my duty", "not my job", and other such moans that i can't be bothered to type.

i just don't get it.....

I have to agree that is a mindset that would have to change. However, as I work in Delivery Office I have never seen this, though I have heard similar complaints when DO posties are sent to MCs, they tell us its a different world. However I do feel the need to point out that as a leader part of that is addressing the divide and trying to change it as much as you can. From little acorns do giant oaks grow.

PS. No reply to my post about Phase 4 yet, just interested in your response as part of the debate

Oh! nearly forgot - welcome to RMC.

[damcka]

Ah a PHd ! so that makes you instantly a better person than the ''posties''on here Wise up buddy before you get your ars* kicked by a postie with more than you can handle just because they dont have a ba,ma,phd ........... never ever underestimate your opponents

there's uniformed people who could run sections or offices but they don't want to . Sorry mate but I'm afraid you'll learn the hard way how RM really works .

true, but let's be honest. it's not a hard job. In fact, DOMs, WAMs etc have a pretty cushy number, but feel hard done by like everyone else in RM. "blah, blsh...no pay rise etc etc."

WAKE UP! There's a recession going on, people losing their jobs up and down the country, people taking wage cuts to keep their jobs, and you guys feel hard done to because of a pay freeze! you even got you share and incentive bonus and still the moans!
Its speaks volumes about the culture in RM that a site like this even exists, a pedestal to moan from.......

I actually asked couple of my staff recently if they wanted to go on management courses etc. but they refused because, "it's not worth the hassle, there are arseholes all over this place who are only interested in being difficult C**ts".

The above statement was made in private and in confidence to me about his colleagues by a really popular hard working member of my staff. 'nuff said

about my education.....you guys are the ones that wanted to play the "stupid" card. Don't blame me if you don't like the facts.

[rockytony67]

if staff directed as much effort into helping eachother, rather than irrationally hating management, then maybe the divide wouldn't exist.

I feel worlds apart from the mind set of the staff. If i saw a colleague struggling, then i'd help them, not screw them. which is what i see time and again. I have to force the staff to help eachother out, all i ever hear is "i dont work with him", "why are you asking me", "thats not my duty", "not my job", and other such moans that i can't be bothered to type.

i just don't get it.....

Then be a man and lead by example, resign as a manager, become a blue shirt, and help your colleague's who are struggling and prove what you say, they won't be able to say that your only doing it because your a manager and have a jaundiced view, but because you think it is right

[TrueBlueTerrier]

On the pay freeze, and this is only my personal opinion, if Royal Mail had engaged staff and explained the reasons why, and perhaps stated that they indeed did which to progress with Phase 4 of the Pay and Mod agreement perhaps we would not be complaining so much.

I for one thought a pay freeze was a distinct possibility even though I disagree with it, but Royal Mail handled it really badly.

Just look at the Honda workers, their management and Unions talked to each other and engaged the work force and now they have an agreed 3% wage cut hopefully with some return for accepting the deal. Perhaps RM could learn something about communicating from them.

[damcka]

if staff directed as much effort into helping eachother, rather than irrationally hating management, then maybe the divide wouldn't exist.

I feel worlds apart from the mind set of the staff. If i saw a colleague struggling, then i'd help them, not screw them. which is what i see time and again. I have to force the staff to help eachother out, all i ever hear is "i dont work with him", "why are you asking me", "thats not my duty", "not my job", and other such moans that i can't be bothered to type.

i just don't get it.....

Then be a man and lead by example, resign as a manager, become a blue shirt, and help your colleague's who are struggling and prove what you say, they won't be able to say that your only doing it because your a manager and have a jaundiced view, but because you think it is right

mortgage etc. besides, with all due respect being on the post isn't the job for me. Also, if you read my post, my point is that i have to FORCE staff to work together and help eachother out. Case in point, i'm leading by example.

On the subject of struggling posties, particularly in delivery, about 75% of staff do not meet the standard for sorting letters, flats and packets. Then they want to cut off, or claim OT. Now, come of the soap box and put yourself in a management role. what would you do?
Me? first things first they're not getting OT, if they're not working to a reasonable standard.

Its called taylorism, the application of scientific principles to prodcution line environment.

(A) amount of staff working at standard (B) = (C )productivity.

I don't have any issue if someone is working hard and can't manage to complete their duty in the allocated time. There are ways round that.... OT being one option, (what should happen is to revise the duty at this stage and act accordingly).

I had a situation yesterday with a member of staff who has shown me in the past that he can sort at a rate of 30 items per min. He said he would be claiming OT, i analysed his performance and he came out at sorting 11 items per min.....sorry not good enough. I calculated that he would have been on delivery 40 mins earlier had he worked at even 75% of what he could, negating the requirement for OT.

MC is the same, especially on mech. I've seen one member of staff clear an LSM in 20 Mins, ON HIS OWN!

I love christmas in the MC also, as the Christmas temps put most full timers to shame. I actually heard a member of FT staff telling a casual to "slow down".

My point? would they be struggling so much if they worked at even 60% capability. I bet if it was the much talked about "job on finish", the situation would be different.

disclaimer: this post has not been checked for spelling or grammatical errors

[rockytony67]

On the subject of struggling posties, particularly in delivery, about 75% of staff do not meet the standard for sorting letters, flats and packets. Then they want to cut off, or claim OT. Now, come of the soap box and put yourself in a management role. what would you do?
Me? first things first they're not getting OT, if they're not working to a reasonable standard.

Can you tell me what the agreed standards are for posties? can you also tell me if you think that many of the new recruits who are on p/t hours are giving adequate training?

I don't have any issue if someone is working hard and can't manage to complete their duty in the allocated time. There are ways round that.... OT being one option, (what should happen is to revise the duty at this stage and act accordingly).

Can you tell me how many RM delivery offices revise the delivery and act accordingly?

With all due respect and welcoming you to the board , you are living in cloud cuckoo land, you may call what is happening in delivery's "Taylorism" I call it bullying and harassment, and again I urge you that if you believe that the standards you champion are correct then lead from the front and show those who you believe are pulling a fast one, were they are going wrong

[norbert]

CMA / Amicus or UNITE -" Royal Mail , an arrogant firm that thinks that they only have to the answer to all RM's problems , a 70's command and control style of management ".

It's always the staff that are in the wrong ? , RM don't do responsibility , I suppose it was the staff's fault at a MC that they were told to kill off all unofficial redirects in direct contravention of the licence by a AM , stickers everywhere for a month , then the AM who gave the orders " " suddenly " disappeared " - never to be seen again

Strangely enough , he was always fond of giving it the Big Al - " you are all being negative and are so well paid " too - it's funny what you get to hear - small world isn't it

Bring back the time traveling Postman from the Fluffy side / Hellmail to offer an alternative view

As for sorting standards , RM's training used to be very good and comprehensive , then the rot started with all this dumbing down , don't get me wrong there are people that want putting out to grass but RM are quite happy to command and ignore when it suits them and are constrained by excessive political correctness . Staff can't complain about it , they'd be put on a trumped up charge for it .

[norbert]

On the subject of struggling posties, particularly in delivery, about 75% of staff do not meet the standard for sorting letters, flats and packets. Then they want to cut off, or claim OT. Now, come of the soap box and put yourself in a management role. what would you do?
Me? first things first they're not getting OT, if they're not working to a reasonable standard.

Can you tell me what the agreed standards are for posties? can you also tell me if you think that many of the new recruits who are on p/t hours are giving adequate training?

I don't have any issue if someone is working hard and can't manage to complete their duty in the allocated time. There are ways round that.... OT being one option, (what should happen is to revise the duty at this stage and act accordingly).

Can you tell me how many RM delivery offices revise the delivery and act accordingly?

With all due respect and welcoming you to the board , you are living in cloud cuckoo land, you may call what is happening in delivery's "Taylorism" I call it bullying and harassment, and again I urge you that if you believe that the standards you champion are correct then lead from the front and show those who you believe are pulling a fast one, were they are going wrong

The " Taylorism " sounds like " Fordism " - one slight problem it's not the 1930's or even earlier anymore and RM is not like a auto production line in Detroit - it is a glossy spin on macho management and the tribal - " they are all lazy and taking the p*** for as little as possible for as much as possible " - slight motivation problem

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Don't think I would be a proponent of Taylorism in a business that relies so much on goodwill and flexibility as Royal Mail should.

http://www.12manage.com/methods_taylor_ ... ement.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taylorism.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylorism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scientific management (also called Taylorism or the Taylor system) is a theory of management that analyzes and synthesizes workflows, with the objective of improving labour productivity. The core ideas of the theory were developed by Frederick Winslow Taylor in the 1880s and 1890s, and were first published in his monographs, Shop Management (1905) and The Principles of Scientific Management (1911).[1] Taylor believed that decisions based upon tradition and rules of thumb should be replaced by precise procedures developed after careful study of an individual at work. Its application is contingent on a high level of managerial control over employee work practices.

Taylorism is a variation on the theme of efficiency; it is a late-19th-and-early-20th-century instance of the larger recurring theme in human life of increasing efficiency, decreasing waste, and using empirical methods to decide what matters, rather than uncritically accepting pre-existing ideas of what matters. Thus it is a chapter in the larger narrative that also includes, for example, the folk wisdom of thrift, time and motion study, Fordism, and lean manufacturing. It overlapped considerably with the Efficiency Movement, which was the broader cultural echo of scientific management's impact on business managers specifically.

In management literature today, the greatest use of the concept of Taylorism is as a contrast to a new, improved way of doing business. In political and sociological terms, Taylorism can be seen as the division of labour pushed to its logical extreme, with a consequent de-skilling of the worker and dehumanisation of the workplace, see 3D.