A statement from the London Divisional Committee

[pinstripe]

Same here, I don't do O/T and always refuse (personal reasons). If someone does occasional O/T and then refuses their 'offer' RM can't prove that they are taking I/A, but if someone always does O/T, (and there are many reasons why, it's not a dig at anyone) then RM can and will argue that they are taking Unofficial I/A, if they suddenly start refusing it. (One of my previous DOM's confirmed this before the 2007 strikes)
As Dingo says, it is now a legal minefield.
IMO, there will be some members in every office who would break an O/T ban even if it was part of Official I/A, reducing it's effect slightly, but if my office is any indication of how an office shouldn't be run, if only 50% of the O/T was covered, RM would face disaster every day.

[baldrick]

As there is little OT in my MC anyway, an OT ban would be ineffectual.
And the non-members and serial strike breakers would do any that was offered.

[Martin Walsh]

Disguntled indivduals coming off overtime is not a problem. However if an office collectiivly comes off overtime then Royal Mail will deem this unofficial action.

The law is not intrested in specifics as a judge in chambers will award an injuction and the case can then be defended at a point in the future. A lot of times becuase of costs the union will not defend the case and Royal Mail know that and it therefore buys them time.

[pickaname]

Disguntled indivduals coming off overtime is not a problem. However if an office collectiivly comes off overtime then Royal Mail will deem this unofficial action.

The law is not intrested in specifics as a judge in chambers will award an injuction and the case can then be defended at a point in the future. A lot of times becuase of costs the union will not defend the case and Royal Mail know that and it therefore buys them time.

So how can an injuction be given to force an office to do overtime...surely the whole office can cite personal reasons.

[Martin Walsh]

Easy what a judge considers was people working on mass on overtime previously and have collectively stopped and was this encourage by the CWU. In other words was a meeting held or was circulars put out.

If the overtime ban continues after the injuction then the union could be charged with contempt of court and indivuduals would be in breach of contact.

The law is an ass and unfair but thats why they are anti trade union laws.

[baldrick]

They did that at Mount Pleasant a few years ago. I can't remember what the issue was,
but the result was that people stopped applying for OT, and crossed their names off the
OT sheet if they had already put their names down. Within a couple of days the office
was overflowing with a backlog of work.
Management were unable to prove that the CWU Branch Committee had encouraged
members to do this - there were no meetings, posters or circulars as evidence, but RM
still went to the High Court and got an injunction ordering the CWU to tell members to
'work normally' - ie to work overtime.

[postghost]

Striking is a complete and utter waste of time and all that happens is that you end up skint.

Working to rule is the only way to go.
These people that arent working to rule should have their union membership terminated.
Let them then dig their own way out when the sh1t hits the fan for them using their car as a mail hold, take d2ds home to prep or when they trip and fall when they are running round their delivery and they twist their ankle etc. Its a confliction of what is best for the union is it not?

I fully support all the brothers and sisters who have chosen this course of action recently and applaud them for their tenacity, but NOTHING will change until people DO THE JOB PROPERLY!!

Alas I do not see that happening as this was a bone of contention at the strikes two years ago. The CWU dropped the ball in enforcing the DYJP campaign properly and as a result, we are where we are now.

It is far too late.

[Big Daz]

Alas that will achive SFA at my D.O

Were not busy enough with work especially once longs and shorts are taken into account.

[johnnyp]

The only way to hurt management is to strike imho.Mountains of mail piled up in Mail Centres and Delivery offices hurts management the most and gives us a better chance of winning a dispute and getting an agreement.

[postghost]

The only way to hurt management is to strike imho.Mountains of mail piled up in Mail Centres and Delivery offices hurts management the most and gives us a better chance of winning a dispute and getting an agreement.

But it ends up getting delivered anyway after a couple of weeks.
It didnt work last time. If it did, we wouldnt be where we are now.

[Big Daz]

We should also consider tailoring IA to to the situation in each individual office, rather than a one size fits all policy.

Good idea or bad?

[andy2007]

Easy what a judge considers was people working on mass on overtime previously and have collectively stopped and was this encourage by the CWU. In other words was a meeting held or was circulars put out.

If the overtime ban continues after the injuction then the union could be charged with contempt of court and indivuduals would be in breach of contact.

The law is an ass and unfair but thats why they are anti trade union laws.

Overtime is VOLUNTARY! Therefore: THERE CAN'T BE ANY LEGAL RECOURSE FOR ROYAL MAIL, IF WE REFUSE TO DO OVERTIME IN THE FUTURE!

We don't even need to give a reason! All this crap about citing "personal reasons", is pointless. It's up to US whether we do overtime. We have absolutely NO obligation to do any. Unless of course, there's been a new agreement, that no-one's bothered to tell me about.

The ONLY exception, is Scheduled Attendance. Because you have to sign a Contract to do a certain amount of S/A, on certain days. You WOULD have to honour that contract, or risk being accused of Unofficial IA, and/or breach of Contract.

[baldrick]

For an individual it's voluntary, but if people cease OT en masse it will be deemed to be Industrial Action.

[johnnyp]

The only way to hurt management is to strike imho.Mountains of mail piled up in Mail Centres and Delivery offices hurts management the most and gives us a better chance of winning a dispute and getting an agreement.

But it ends up getting delivered anyway after a couple of weeks.
It didnt work last time. If it did, we wouldnt be where we are now.

postghost the Pay And Mod agreement which we went on strike 8 days official and in my area 3 days unofficial is a lot better then what management wanted before we took any action at all.Think back to the 23 strings that management wanted and we didnt do to bad in the end.The reason we are where we are is because management are not sticking to that deal and introducing revisions based on unrealistic savings without local CWU involvement.

[Martin Walsh]

Andy dont really want to get into a debate but all Royal Mail needs to prove is that x amount of people were perfoming overtime on one week and then no one is perfoming it on another week. I dont like it anymore then you but having experience quite a few injuctions and challenges i know that to be a fact.

Now Postghost the pratice of working properly or work to rules simply do not work and are so easy to break. First off you do need a ballot , but look at Streatham and Watford they caused chaos in 2007 by everyone doing the job properly and work was everywhere but management drafted in one to one marking with over 100 managers and then when indivudals cut off management took them off their whole days pay as they used the indoor workload tool to argue they were not working normally. In the end we had over 37 OPGs being taken off pay on an almost daily basis and in the end it went un official for over a week spreading to most of London who came out in support. A year later after the union took Royal Mail to tribuanl Royal Mail agree to pay everyone their losses as they didt want the tribunal to make a ruling on this matter.

So again as some one who had orgnaised all kinds of industial action both in the past and currently striking is the only thing which wins disputes , work to rules or overtime bans never put enough pressure on the employer to settle a big dispute and they dont come bigger then fighting for the future.