Royal Mail and the one hour contact

[fmrPOSTIE]

yet more local/national agreements? LOL.

Is there one in place for going for a piss at RM?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

yet more local/national agreements? LOL.

Is there one in place for going for a piss at RM?

Even Hooper and Sawyer would disagree with you there:

HOOPER - That will not happen unless there is political separation, better engagement between the management and workforce, and a joint commitment to modernise the service in the best interests of the taxpayer, consumer and employees.
SAWYER - But of course it could not be right for Royal Mail to introduce far-reaching changes affecting its employees without the full involvement of the union.

[andy2007]

Nothing wrong with TOIL, commonplace in the private sector and a nice alternative!

I have as well, but the problem is you need input from both sides and fairness in its implementation. If Royal Mail say you are to take toil instead of being paid OT then that does not quite meet the fairness or "input from both sides".

Also without an agreement and or rules in writing so that both sides know the exact circumstances when and if it should be applied it should not be used. To date I know of no national or even local arrangement that has been agreed the CWU.

We have one. It's been in for several months now. But although it's a good idea for those who want extra leave. I don't like the fact that it was brought in at a local level, rather than a national one. The bigger the divides get between different areas. The worse things will get for us.

Personally, I've only used the "reverse TOIL". When I needed to take Special Leave. Basically: I was given the time off, without loosing pay. But had to make it back, by claiming my S/A, as TOIL. I know I'd have been better off financially, if I'd taken unpaid Special Leave. But I needed the money, as there were bills due.

[norbert]

Nothing wrong with TOIL, commonplace in the private sector and a nice alternative!

TOIL now and be deceived later sound like banking hours to me and that is a step too far!.

exactly ! , the goalposts being moved to the next field , sometimes a field in the next town & elastic redefinitions , elastic to the point of bun-jee jumping elastic - some of it is down to pressure from on high so you've got to look at this very regimented top down style of management .

No wonder staff don't trust RM , and the criticism of RM's Senior Management was a failure to take staff with them . They don't lead at all , they merely dictate , Stalinist was one word used to describe them . It's ironic that :lfo said that RM was like a soviet state when he took over .

Most businesses have rejected that style , RM do a terrible job of pretending to be a private company in fact you've the worst of both old school RM and the private sector . It's certainly not this " brave new world " ,& " utopian paradise " that the Pravda or Courier would have people believe .

[norbert]

yet more local/national agreements? LOL.

Is there one in place for going for a piss at RM?

that's been the way for a long time , it boils down to trust and goodwill which simply isn't there . Management are equally as bad , the playground ; " they're all out to do as little as possible for as much as possible " mentality .

Then add :lfo & :cfo 's arrogant and autocratic regimentation and you've a very poisonous cocktail . Even the AMICUS/CMA part of UNITE dismiss RM as arrogant and stuck in the 70's .

Hooper said Senior Management lack the expertise to run a postal operation . RM has the same problems as anywhere else only taken to literal extremes , the British Disease - middle management being one of them .

There's the anti union stuff from Mandy about branches stopping changes , it's not quite so simple , RM cock things up and there's the underhand machinations .

[bogstandard]

i suppose some of the problems could be that one you've invested in to this TOIL you're commited to keep investing until you've banked 8 hours or a days shift. Then at what point are you allowed to book your day off, this year/next year.
At who's discretion, is the choice of day off entirely yours or an agreed time that must initially suit this business first and you second.
If i was RM management i would be as keen as you like for this one as the vast majority of people will not keep records of what they have invested into the system and anyway if i wanted to screw you out of an hour there's eff all you could do about it.

I don't see any reason for the business to actively keep accurate records, where is the motivation ?

[andy2007]

i suppose some of the problems could be that one you've invested in to this TOIL you're commited to keep investing until you've banked 8 hours or a days shift. Then at what point are you allowed to book your day off, this year/next year.
At who's discretion, is the choice of day off entirely yours or an agreed time that must initially suit this business first and you second.
If i was RM management i would be as keen as you like for this one as the vast majority of people will not keep records of what they have invested into the system and anyway if i wanted to screw you out of an hour there's eff all you could do about it.

I don't see any reason for the business to actively keep accurate records, where is the motivation ?

No, your TOIL hours are kept seperate from your A/L, go strait on the books, and can be booked in 1 hour blocks. The only restriction, is that you can't have more than the maximum number of people off on any particular day (same as A/L). So far, the only problem we've had with it, is people trying to change their hours with it. They wanted to do 2 hours overtime, and finish 2 hours early, on a regular basis. But that caused a problems, so we were told no-one would be allowed to do that regularly again.

Other than that, it seems to be working just as well as the Flexy Time, my Parents used to get where they worked.

I had serious reservations about it, when it came in: Primarily the fact that it was a Local Agreement, rather than a National one. And I was suspicious that it wouldn't be run fairly. But I was proved wrong with the latter.

[bogstandard]

so i am right in thinking then from your reply that there is no motivation for the business to keep accurate records and that the primary right of choice for when you take your time that the business owes you is down to the business.
The shortened version is then i guess, i/we do the firm a favour by not booking legitimate o/t on a specific day and at the time that suits the business needs without notice given on their part and in return they respond in kind by not giving me/us time off when i/we want but on or at a time and day that suits them, assuming their records are correct.

Hmmm not sure about that one ????????????????

[andy2007]

Their motivation, is that we have to volunteer to book the time as TOIL (unless you used reverse TOIL). And we aren't likley to do that, if they didn't keep accurate records, and were found out.

So for example: A while back, I needed a days unpaid Special Leave. But was allowed to use reverse TOIL instead. I do 8 hours S/A a week, so I had to book 1 weeks S/A as TOIL, to bring me back up to 0 hours TOIL.

There are others, who have been choosing to book TOIL, and using it to get extra leave. And they're the reason that RM wanted this system. Because it's saving on their overtime budget. Those that are using the system, like it, because so long as we don't have the maximum people off on any particular day. They have lots of extra leave.

But all this, can, and probably will, backfire in the future. Things like this will start creaping in everywhere: One Office will have one thing, another will have another. Then if (or rather, when) problems occur. Well have trouble motivating the rest of the Country to help defend our rights.

So for example: If they started putting major restrictions on when we could book TOIL. Would others want to defend our rights, when it could amount to several extra weeks holiday for us, and you're getting FA?
They're not as daft as they appear!

[norbert]

Their motivation, is that we have to volunteer to book the time as TOIL (unless you used reverse TOIL). And we aren't likley to do that, if they didn't keep accurate records, and were found out.

So for example: A while back, I needed a days unpaid Special Leave. But was allowed to use reverse TOIL instead. I do 8 hours S/A a week, so I had to book 1 weeks S/A as TOIL, to bring me back up to 0 hours TOIL.

There are others, who have been choosing to book TOIL, and using it to get extra leave. And they're the reason that RM wanted this system. Because it's saving on their overtime budget. Those that are using the system, like it, because so long as we don't have the maximum people off on any particular day. They have lots of extra leave.

But all this, can, and probably will, backfire in the future. Things like this will start creaping in everywhere: One Office will have one thing, another will have another. Then if (or rather, when) problems occur. Well have trouble motivating the rest of the Country to help defend our rights.

So for example: If they started putting major restrictions on when we could book TOIL. Would others want to defend our rights, when it could amount to several extra weeks holiday for us, and you're getting FA?
They're not as daft as they appear!

Millidge is doing this quite deliberately to " prepare for privatization " or sidelining the union , he'd like all different contracts which are bonus based , let's face it most of the parcel companies have a paranoid anxiety about the CWU and private equity vultures are very hostile to unions .

[bogstandard]

i get it it's an RM scam to remove o/t

[andy2007]

No, they're getting rid of overtime anyway. The Early Shift have just been given their 28 days notice, that their S/A is being cancelled. And they only got their current S/A Contracts last month (the amount of S/A had been reduced).

Basically, when you fill in your Overtime Docket you can opt for TOIL, or getting paid. We choose at the time. The Managers have no prior knowledge, unless we've used the reverse TOIL option. Whih is only available, if you would otherwise qualify for unpaid Special Leave.

That's the only TOIL I've used. Because it's a local agreement. Although, one of the Managers, told me yesterday: It's available throughout the NW. Anyone know whether this is true?
If so, why hasn't it been offered as an option elsewhere?

[bogstandard]

Clearly then, my deduction is correct given your response. It IS a means of removing all o/t.
As you say the manager has no knowledge at the time of you filling out the docket what (TOIL or o/t) you are going to do, then do you not envisage a future whereby you will only get offered the opportunity to take part in TOIL and those wishing to book docket will be overlooked or indeed bypassed altogether in favour of those wishing to work at a cheaper rate i.e. TOIL, as this would be a cheaper and more efficient use of RM resources

Q. How does removing all a.m. s/a comply with the P and M agreement, specifically "reasonable level of earnings"

[baldrick]

Management have given notice to cease all Mon-Fri SA in my MC from next Friday.
It is one of the reasons for the strike ballot in London.

[janitor]

TOIL please our DOM can't even cope with giving us our holidays, the office falls apart when people refuse to work their day off, sometimes the managers are out doing two or more walks between them, even need senior managers in from the mailcentre sometimes, so i think the idea of TOIL is just laughable, last time i was offered it i laughed so much i nearly went sick.