Unrest grows over treatment of Royal Mail IT workers

[norbert]

“A lot of our skills are specific to Royal Mail and do not easily translate into another working environment and we don’t have formal qualifications because we barely received any training,” said the worker.

Never a truer word. All those ex-posties, drivers and clerical staff who transferred to the IT department now finding that their experience and "training" wasn't up to much. I guess there's only so many times those IT help-line people can say "Control Alt Delete" and still fool themselves they actually know anything about IT.
RM square pegs in round holes again...

“The fact that our skills could be used in the business doesn’t matter they just wanted us to leave. They have been successful by getting rid of a lot of employees with many years of service and taking on new people under a completely different package,” said one ex-employee.

There's an ex-employee who still believes that anyone can do any job then.............

Well they could have delivered mail, how hard can that be? Oh, yes of course, they did over the christmas pressure period.

" A Culture Change " getting rid of the " old salts " though some should have been put out to grass a long time ago but that's poor cultures ,leadership . management and supervision - orders from on very high , with privatization getting rid of experienced staff usually back fires as the baby is thrown out with the bathwater . The idiots in charge aren't capable of realizing that , it's all blue sky thinking , RM in wonderland .
If you can't manage you play politics instead .

[Tman]

“A lot of our skills are specific to Royal Mail and do not easily translate into another working environment and we don’t have formal qualifications because we barely received any training,” said the worker.

[quote="Never a truer word. All those ex-posties, drivers and clerical staff who transferred to the IT department now finding that their experience and "training" wasn't up to much. I guess there's only so many times those IT help-line people can say "Control Alt Delete" and still fool themselves they actually know anything about IT.
RM square pegs in round holes again...

Interesting point but wrong department. Technical support is CSC, an external company

I was generalising. Seen the same ex-drivers coming around and doing thier best to install upgrades and fault LANs etc but after the usual "ummm errr" moments, deciding the fault is too complex and that the PC (or whatever) must be returned.

We all remember the keen one though. He actually had a screw-driver with him; obviously expecting problems.....

[dvbuk55]

“A lot of our skills are specific to Royal Mail and do not easily translate into another working environment and we don’t have formal qualifications because we barely received any training,” said the worker.

[quote="Never a truer word. All those ex-posties, drivers and clerical staff who transferred to the IT department now finding that their experience and "training" wasn't up to much. I guess there's only so many times those IT help-line people can say "Control Alt Delete" and still fool themselves they actually know anything about IT.
RM square pegs in round holes again...

Interesting point but wrong department. Technical support is CSC, an external company

I was generalising. Seen the same ex-drivers coming around and doing thier best to install upgrades and fault LANs etc but after the usual "ummm errr" moments, deciding the fault is too complex and that the PC (or whatever) must be returned.

We all remember the keen one though. He actually had a screw-driver with him; obviously expecting problems.....

That was to open the van door when it jammed.

[norbert]

Some very interesting anonymous comments made at the foot of the article - sounds like typical RM Senior Management , spending a fortune on parasitical consultants now

[BELIAL]

Some very interesting anonymous comments made at the foot of the article - sounds like typical RM Senior Management , spending a fortune on parasitical consultants now

Yep the consultancy moneygoround game.
You wine me,dine me ,give me lots of corporate hospitality,crucial weekend presentations in exclusive out of the way luxury hotels, and tell me you can make me look good and whack up my bonus to boot by slashing my department costs.I'll pay you a fortune,it ain't my money.
Two years after when the wheels have fallen off,and it's nothing to do with my cost cutting, I'll hire your nice little consultancy firm again but this time your brief will be to up turnover and output , and guess what ,my bonus will be calculated on growth in revenue this time. Same deal as last time (though your rival does those week long seminars at ST Andrews )
Two years later ,you guessed it, repeat step one

[andy2007]

Bit surprised by some of the vitriol being displayed by respondents on this issue, especially denigrating the work that some of YOUR colleagues have done over the years in the Technology department. I'm sure they will be suitably sympathetic when your turn comes and you are replaced by other 'more competent' workers (albeit probably part time).

On the contrary: It's not our Collegues in the IT Departments that we have such a low opinion of. But those who provided you with sub-standard training. And don't even have the decency to find you a comparable job, when they decide that they don't need all of you. The woeful lack of training is apparent in most places now. And RM weren't about to "break the mold", by giving you skills you could take elsewhere.

In the early '90s, you needed a MINIMUM of a HND (with a Distinction grade), or a Degree. Just to be considered for a job like yours. Believe me, I've been there. I only got Merits in 2 Modules, and Passes in the rest (overall Pass). And was frequently told, that unless I had a background in IT, or an overall Distinction in my HND. That I had little chance of being taken on. Although since then, I've set up a couple of Unix Systems on a freelance basis (back in the 90's), and written an order processing system for a Company in London (also in the '90s). But most people seem to want "off the shelf" stuff these days. So I'm a bit out of practice now, and also nearly a decade out of date too!

I can't speak for everyone else on here: But personally, I think this whole situation is terrible. I've no idea what formal qualifications you all have. But unless you've put yourselves through Higher Education. You've little chance of getting another similar job. Which will mean that you're going to suffer financially, even once you've got another job.

What (if anything) is the Union actually doing about this?

[ronnie6]

Bit surprised by some of the vitriol being displayed by respondents on this issue, especially denigrating the work that some of YOUR colleagues have done over the years in the Technology department. I'm sure they will be suitably sympathetic when your turn comes and you are replaced by other 'more competent' workers (albeit probably part time).

On the contrary: It's not our Collegues in the IT Departments that we have such a low opinion of. But those who provided you with sub-standard training. And don't even have the decency to find you a comparable job, when they decide that they don't need all of you. The woeful lack of training is apparent in most places now. And RM weren't about to "break the mold", by giving you skills you could take elsewhere.

In the early '90s, you needed a MINIMUM of a HND (with a Distinction grade), or a Degree. Just to be considered for a job like yours. Believe me, I've been there. I only got Merits in 2 Modules, and Passes in the rest (overall Pass). And was frequently told, that unless I had a background in IT, or an overall Distinction in my HND. That I had little chance of being taken on. Although since then, I've set up a couple of Unix Systems on a freelance basis (back in the 90's), and written an order processing system for a Company in London (also in the '90s). But most people seem to want "off the shelf" stuff these days. So I'm a bit out of practice now, and also nearly a decade out of date too!

I can't speak for everyone else on here: But personally, I think this whole situation is terrible. I've no idea what formal qualifications you all have. But unless you've put yourselves through Higher Education. You've little chance of getting another similar job. Which will mean that you're going to suffer financially, even once you've got another job.

What (if anything) is the Union actually doing about this?

What is the union actually doing about this? - don't make me laugh...absolutely nothing. No pay rise for any surplus staff last year (despite supposedly based on previous years good appraisals), no bonus (despite part of contractual terms), no information, no help, no support - response from CMA ? deafening silence......

[mailsort6]

Bit surprised by some of the vitriol being displayed by respondents on this issue, especially denigrating the work that some of YOUR colleagues have done over the years in the Technology department. I'm sure they will be suitably sympathetic when your turn comes and you are replaced by other 'more competent' workers (albeit probably part time).

On the contrary: It's not our Collegues in the IT Departments that we have such a low opinion of. But those who provided you with sub-standard training. And don't even have the decency to find you a comparable job, when they decide that they don't need all of you. The woeful lack of training is apparent in most places now. And RM weren't about to "break the mold", by giving you skills you could take elsewhere.

In the early '90s, you needed a MINIMUM of a HND (with a Distinction grade), or a Degree. Just to be considered for a job like yours. Believe me, I've been there. I only got Merits in 2 Modules, and Passes in the rest (overall Pass). And was frequently told, that unless I had a background in IT, or an overall Distinction in my HND. That I had little chance of being taken on. Although since then, I've set up a couple of Unix Systems on a freelance basis (back in the 90's), and written an order processing system for a Company in London (also in the '90s). But most people seem to want "off the shelf" stuff these days. So I'm a bit out of practice now, and also nearly a decade out of date too!

I can't speak for everyone else on here: But personally, I think this whole situation is terrible. I've no idea what formal qualifications you all have. But unless you've put yourselves through Higher Education. You've little chance of getting another similar job. Which will mean that you're going to suffer financially, even once you've got another job.

What (if anything) is the Union actually doing about this?

The CWU has introduced learning centres at some delivery and some mail centres, the thing is alot of employees are not taking full advantage of this, they are more interested in earning loads of money. It would not hurt them to do a couple of hours each week learning IT skills or any subject they are interested in. A very long time ago I was told by an IT professional that there was new technology that was going to change RM and there would be job loses eventally and that person advised me to get as much qualification as I can whilst working for RM because things are going to change and that person was right and I am glad that I listened to that person's advise.

[DGP1]

The only training courses offered to us was ECDL which was (for me) like teaching an alcholic how to drink and even that was 3 years ago, I'd need an MCP or a Comptia course to excite me .

I suppose I'll have to look to the colleges again to see if they'll do a course that I can get to (not 50 miles away).

[norbert]

The only training courses offered to us was ECDL which was (for me) like teaching an alcholic how to drink and even that was 3 years ago, I'd need an MCP or a Comptia course to excite me .

I suppose I'll have to look to the colleges again to see if they'll do a course that I can get to (not 50 miles away).

from what I've seen from going on IT courses was that all you got was being good at passing exams , obviously you used common sense and did exactly what you were told you were OK , half the time you didn't understand what you were doing or why , so I'd to buy books which you were shown not taught , visual learning if you like or steps backwards to go forward , everyone is different , one size does not fit all

However the bigger picture is New Labour , all this blue sky thinking , league tables and target cultures , when you talked to the tutors and they went off record and all the college and Dept of Further Education politics was mentioned , you were enlightened . In theory the idea was OK to weed the bad tutors waiting for their pension out but it was used too crudely .

There's been stuff in the papers about dumbed down worthless qualifications in Liverpool , people getting qualifications and hadn't turned up all to fiddle the figures , more politics .

New Labour had this blue sky thinking idea for grants for IT training , however all these cowboy companies were ripping both the state off and the poor b***ers that were trying to better themselves as there were loopholes that could be exploited , millions of tax - payers money down the drain .

The other side of the coin is talking to very IT literate people and they'll tell you that such and such course is cr** , the tutors and staff are cr** , the college is run badly and this is exactly why .

[dvbuk55]

There is always the Open University - a bloke at work has been doing a Maths degree for 7/8 years and gets his degree this year.

There is also the autodidact - education is a wonderful thing.

[ronnie6]

Interestingly, many of the ousted IT staff had industry standard qualifications (ISEB and ITIL) but many of the newcomers have not. So many, in fact, that the business has introduced ITIL training for many of the new staff to bring them up to speed !

[DGP1]

Interestingly, many of the ousted IT staff had industry standard qualifications (ISEB and ITIL) but many of the newcomers have not. So many, in fact, that the business has introduced ITIL training for many of the new staff to bring them up to speed !

That sounds about right for RM, get rid of the experienced stafff who can do the job and bring in younger (less militant ) staff who will take a long time to come up to speed. Still, I'm sure some manager got a bonus for it

[andy2007]

The CWU has introduced learning centres at some delivery and some mail centres, the thing is alot of employees are not taking full advantage of this, they are more interested in earning loads of money. It would not hurt them to do a couple of hours each week learning IT skills or any subject they are interested in. A very long time ago I was told by an IT professional that there was new technology that was going to change RM and there would be job loses eventally and that person advised me to get as much qualification as I can whilst working for RM because things are going to change and that person was right and I am glad that I listened to that person's advise.

Are they open to non CWU Members?

Ours didn't last long. So I don't know whether it was just for us, or anyone who was interested.

They only provided very basic courses, which few if any of us were interested in. So they were withdrawn, due to lack of interest. Although there is talk of reintroducing them, with proper courses, which will actually teach us something.

[BELIAL]

Maybe it's the old "I come to work in a tie" thing again.....

In your case ,I would strongly advise against that course of action