Homosexual postman sues Royal Mail

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Homosexual postman sues Royal Mail for £25,00 over claims he was called 'girly' and 'bitchy'
A homosexual postman is suing Royal Mail for £25,000 over claims his manager called him "effeminate", "bitchy" and "girly".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... itchy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liam Black said he was left "deeply hurt" by the "derogatory remarks" about his sexuality, which were made in his absence, and felt forced to resign.

A tribunal heard that his line manager, Warren Taylor, made the comments during a bullying and harassment hearing convened after the postman and his colleague Danielle Haynes, who were previously best friends, had an argument.

Mr Taylor told a superior at the April 2008 meeting that Mr Black was "gay and very effeminate" and that he had a "girly relationship" with Miss Haynes.
Mr Black, 22, from Chatham, Kent, found out about the remarks after getting a transcript of the meeting a few months later.

"As a gay man I found this statement shocking and offensive and was astonished that such a comment could be made in an interview in my workplace about me without me knowing or having the opportunity to respond," He told the hearing in Ashford.

"This was unacceptable and amounted to a homophobic remark which was not challenged."

Mr Taylor admitted using the words "effeminate", "girly" and "bitchy" when referring to Mr Black's relationship with Miss Hayes.

But he told the tribunal that he "did not mean" to offend him with the comments and that he made a conscious effort to not appear "un-PC".

He said: "During the interview I tried to put the situation into context.

"I mentioned Liam was gay – I wanted to clarify the situation.

"I was aware he was homosexual but this had no bearing on how I treated him.

"I have used the words girly and bitchy towards a heterosexual man before.

"I used the word girly because that was the nature of his relationship with Danielle Haynes – they were always at each other's sides giggling."

But Mr Black, who resigned last July and is unemployed, said that the situation had caused him so much stress he had been signed off work.

He was able to read the comments made about him after requesting notes of the meeting by email.

He is suing Royal Mail for £25,000, equivalent to his annual salary, for constructive dismissal and sexual discrimination.

He said: "To me effeminate and girly were derogatory terms and should not be used in the workplace.

"I was deeply hurt.
"I should have been judged on my conduct as a Royal Mail employee, not as a gay man."

However, barrister Timothy Adkin, for Royal Mail, told the tribunal that Mr Taylor should not be judged as homophobic by his remarks.

He said: "The tribunal should be very slow to conclude that because he said Mr Black was gay and made pejorative comments that he is homophobic."

But Sarah Frazer Butlin, for Mr Black, said: "It was stereotypical language used to describe a homosexual man.

"It was saying Mr Black is very effeminate because he was gay."

The tribunal panel will rule on the case in 28 days.

[shimmyrule]

He said: "To me effeminate and girly were derogatory terms and should not be used in the workplace.

"I was deeply hurt.

ooooh, what a shame, next time im called baldy , im suing

grow up and get on wi your job ya big jesse- oops, sorry.



But Mr Black, who resigned last July and is unemployed, said that the situation had caused him so much stress he had been signed off work.

Stress , ffs, most companys bend over backwards- no pun intended - to have queers in the workplace.

Im not having this "gay" malarky, theyre far from it - theyre never happy/content - gay has been hijacked to make it sound as if its "normal" .

Its positive discrimination, just like the police and the fire brigade, youve no chance of gettin in if your a married white heterosexual guy, its all about targets/diversity/quotas, load o pish if you ask me.

Bet the guy get it too - his money.

Its becomin more like america every bloody day this place.

weve a "queer" at our work and hes a bra lad, i class him as a mate, but its hilarious when he takes a flippy, doors are slammed, parcels are thrown about the callers office and he acts like a scorned woman, hes very effeminate in that way.

Hes only in his 40s and because of the shambles in the callers office, and all the bother it causes, with bugger all help from the dums, who close their office doors and drink coffee, hes had a triple bypass operation, and not one word about his op has been relayed to us by management, no card, nothing, heartless bassas.

I have organised a card wishing him well, and a healthy recovery, but not to rush back- he will be no more thought off, as a stage one beckons.

Finally, up until 2 year ago, we used to have a last letter draw at xmas, every postie put in ten bob a week, and a few prizes were drawn from numbers on a friday, at xmas everyone got a gift, ranging from a tv or dvd player, to a bottle or a case of cans, plus, there were always "prizes" for some of the workmates who had caused some consternation during the year.
It used to be a riot on xmas eve, not a dry eye, as every single person was barracked, verbally abused or slagged off about evrything, everything and everyone was fair game.

Sadly it stopped due to political correctness, and thats when the fun of the job died too.Very sad.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Umm he is not complaining about banter in the office but the words in an official RM interview which were then documented. A completely different situation altogether.

Objecting to him complaining about stress just because of his sexuality is narrow minded. Anyone of any gender, race, religion or lifestyle can suffer from stress and worse.

IMHO Gay is normal its not something you choose to be its something you are. You can't choose to be gay you are or you aren't. Just like the colour of your skin its not something that can be changed at a whim.

[BELIAL]

I see old Nick's re-education program hasn't quite rolled out nationwide yet
Strange but true the most rabid homophobes usually turn out to be the ones with niggling doubts about their own sexuality ,sort of bluff and bluster."methinks the lady doth protest too much"
I like this one too "sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you are a fool rather than open it and prove them right"

[andy2007]

Umm he is not complaining about banter in the office but the words in an official RM interview which were then documented. A completely different situation altogether.

Objecting to him complaining about stress just because of his sexuality is narrow minded. Anyone of any gender, race, religion or lifestyle can suffer from stress and worse.

IMHO Gay is normal its not something you choose to be its something you are. You can't choose to be gay you are or you aren't. Just like the colour of your skin its not something that can be changed at a whim.

Exactly! And have you noticed, that Gays still tend to be treated quite badly. Yet lesbians, have no trouble at all?
Or is that just where I work?

Specifically: There's several Lesbians, who are fully accepted. Yet, when someone "came out" as Gay (several years ago). He was treated shockingly!

It's lucky for those who gave him such a hard time, that there weren't the same B&H rules back then!

What's the difference?!?!?
Are Homosexuals causing us any harm at all?
Leave them alone FFS!!!!!!!

[johnsouthwales]

tuts at throwing packages around.. no wonder things get damaged. no-one's taking enough care of peoples belongings. should be instant dismissal for that - whoever they are

[Puppetmaster]

In our office we have a Gay guy who is out loud and proud,As far as I ,he has no problems at all,gets some banter sometimes,but gives as good as he gets quite a Comeidan (Camp)
he said to one guy who was giving him some stick,that he was so ugly it was enough to turn a Gay Guy straight!!

Again dont think he has any problems with Management as such.
Another funny thing happened,he was telling a Female Manager him and his friend were going to spain on holiday and she said to him were their wives going as well!!
Still has not realised this guy is Gay ,yet he is so camp very nice guy who would always help you ,and he helps the day go quicker with some of his Camp remarks.

[brothermagrew]

Umm he is not complaining about banter in the office but the words in an official RM interview which were then documented. A completely different situation altogether.

Objecting to him complaining about stress just because of his sexuality is narrow minded. Anyone of any gender, race, religion or lifestyle can suffer from stress and worse.

IMHO Gay is normal its not something you choose to be its something you are. You can't choose to be gay you are or you aren't. Just like the colour of your skin its not something that can be changed at a whim.

Exactly! And have you noticed, that Gays still tend to be treated quite badly. Yet lesbians, have no trouble at all?
Or is that just where I work?

Specifically: There's several Lesbians, who are fully accepted. Yet, when someone "came out" as Gay (several years ago). He was treated shockingly!

It's lucky for those who gave him such a hard time, that there weren't the same B&H rules back then!

What's the difference?!?!?
Are Homosexuals causing us any harm at all?
Leave them alone FFS!!!!!!!

Brother andy2007 not really so much to do with the same B&H rules back then! Things changed completely when the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 came into force in December 2003.

[tyfc]

It sounds like the manager "Warren Taylor" has been caught up in a falling out between a gay and his fag hag and he is the innocent party of this, I am not pro management but the comments where made between managers probably disscusing the falling out of the pair and probably tension in their office.

"A tribunal heard that his line manager, Warren Taylor, made the comments during a bullying and harassment hearing convened after the postman and his colleague Danielle Haynes, who were previously best friends, had an argument."

I feel sorry for the manager, as obviously, he has been made that its his fault the gay man has left Royal Mail and not the fact it was probably about something completely different.

I hope its dissmissed in court and the gay man Liam Black has had the publicity he wanted

[norbert]

It sounds like the manager "Warren Taylor" has been caught up in a falling out between a gay and his fag hag and he is the innocent party of this, I am not pro management but the comments where made between managers probably disscusing the falling out of the pair and probably tension in their office.

"A tribunal heard that his line manager, Warren Taylor, made the comments during a bullying and harassment hearing convened after the postman and his colleague Danielle Haynes, who were previously best friends, had an argument."

I feel sorry for the manager, as obviously, he has been made that its his fault the gay man has left Royal Mail and not the fact it was probably about something completely different.

I hope its dissmissed in court and the gay man Liam Black has had the publicity he wanted

some of the stuff the manager said could be perceived as unprofessional especially if he is quoted out of context . He'd also be under a lot of pressure from RM middle class do -gooders with no common sense , perspective and proportion who don't have a clue as to what goes on in the real world

IMO I'm afraid that Liam Black has watched too many " reality " shows which have the most unreal people you could ever meet in them . The publicity could backfire on him in these times as some employers wouldn't touch him with a barge pole , if he does get another job , as bad as RM can be ; it certainly won't be a cakewalk .

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Homosexual postman wins £2,400 from Royal Mail


A homosexual postman who was called "effeminate", "girly" and "bitchy" by his boss has won £2,400 from the Royal Mail for discrimination over his sexuality.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -Mail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liam Black, 22, was also branded "immature" and "pampered by his mother" by line manager Warren Taylor during a meeting held in his absence to discuss a workplace dispute.

Mr Taylor told a tribunal he "did not mean to offend" Mr Black and had made a conscious effort not to appear "un-PC".

But openly homosexual Mr Black was so upset by the remarks that he signed off work with stress and then resigned in July last year.

A panel at Ashford Employment Tribunal accepted Mr Black's claim that he found the remarks "shocking and offensive".

It ruled that the "stereotypical language" was "derogatory" and discriminated against Mr Black on the ground of his sexual orientation.

It ruled that Mr Black's dignity had been "violated" and awarded him £2,000 for hurt feelings.

It also awarded him £400 for the Royal Mail's failure to follow proper procedures after he made a formal complaint.

The panel ruled: "Each of the terms 'effeminate', 'girly' and bitchy' are, when used in respect of a man, a direct reference to that man having female characteristics.

"In the context of this case where they are used concerning a man who is known to be homosexual, they are quite clearly derogatory in nature."

The panel accepted that Mr Taylor was not homophobic but added: "We believe that his choice of words was influenced, quite unconsciously, by his knowledge that Mr Black was homosexual.

"We do not think it likely that he would use those three words together in the description of a heterosexual man.

"We are satisfied that the use of those words by Mr Taylor was on the grounds of sexual orientation.

"We accepted that that conduct was unwanted by Mr Black and that it had the effect of violating his dignity."

Mr Taylor made the comments at a 'bullying and harassment' hearing convened after Mr Black and former best friend Danielle Haynes – a Royal Mail colleague – had a row.

Mr Black, of Chatham, Kent, told the tribunal: "As a gay man I found this statement shocking and offensive.

"I was astonished that such a comment could be made in an interview at my workplace about me without me knowing or having the opportunity to respond.

"This was unacceptable and amounted to a homophobic remark, and went unchallenged."

Mr Black had not been present at the meeting but he learned of the remarks when he requested a transcript of the meeting.

He resigned last July but the tribunal rejected his claim that he had no choice but to walk out and sue for constructive dismissal.

It also ruled that the words 'immature' and 'pampered' were not discriminatory.

[norbert]

Umm he is not complaining about banter in the office but the words in an official RM interview which were then documented. A completely different situation altogether.

Objecting to him complaining about stress just because of his sexuality is narrow minded. Anyone of any gender, race, religion or lifestyle can suffer from stress and worse.

IMHO Gay is normal its not something you choose to be its something you are. You can't choose to be gay you are or you aren't. Just like the colour of your skin its not something that can be changed at a whim.

the interesting bit would be , who was that manager trying to impress ? , was RM's real agenda to minimize / trivialize the compliant ( to bottom it ) ? , what were the questions from higher up ? and what would the " correct " RM answers would be ?

It's too much of a coincidence that RM was threatened with investigation by the EOC , a area manager took them to a embarrassing tribunal for constructive dismissal after the Jermaine Lee suicide , unfortunately the possibility of a bitter manager with a possible chip on his shoulder breaking ranks and spilling the beans ; puts the sh*** up most firms , not complaints by staff , that sort of thing makes it harder for RM to make sh** shine ?

There may well be valid points about how contentious this case may be , BUT what happens to the next person in a simpler case and the case after that ? - I suspect this was to deter people from queering ( no pun intended ) RM's pitch

[andy2007]

Homosexual postman wins £2,400 from Royal Mail

It's great that he won his case. But £2,400 isn't a deterrant to a Company as big as RM. Or do the Managers have to pay the compensation out of their own pocket?

[brothermagrew]

It's great that he won his case. But £2,400 isn't a deterrant to a Company as big as RM. Or do the Managers have to pay the compensation out of their own pocket?

Yes and quite rightly so. The amount may not be a deterrant but it is an award nonetheless. And you will recall that from an above posting of mine, I intimated to you in particular that things changed completely when the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 came into force in December 2003.

A panel at Ashford Employment Tribunal accepted Mr Black's claim that he found the remarks "shocking and offensive".

It ruled that the "stereotypical language" was "derogatory" and discriminated against Mr Black on the ground of his sexual orientation.

It ruled that Mr Black's dignity had been "violated" and awarded him £2,000 for hurt feelings.

It is very clear that some Royal Mail managers aren't keeping themselves abreast of new employment legislation, otherwise they would have known better not to make such 'derogatory', 'discriminatory' 'undignified' and 'violatory' remarks against one of their members of staff, and IMHO the panel members of the Ashford Employment Tribunal were spot on.

So much so for DIGNITY and RESPECT for all within Royal Mail workplaces, the tribunal ruling has laid to rest that 'myth'. It ruled that Mr Black's dignity had been "violated" end off.

Addendum:
Should have also added and as brother Teebs has mentioned in his posting - It also awarded him £400 for the Royal Mail's failure to follow proper procedures after he made a formal complaint.

[norbert]

RM have always thrown money at things and protected their managers to the very bitter end - I welcome the fact someone has won on important points of employment law and RM's failure to follow it's own procedure , an arrogant firm but it's arrogance can be it's Achilles Heel .

RM will probably take perverse delight in smearing someone as a bitching queen that many employers won't touch with a bargepole , a " moral " crusade " - £2500 + £400 cheap at half the price ? . That's corporate culture , people's only "motivation" .

It's no coincidence that a ex ASLEF train driver won in court over Ihr contracts taking on RM's cavalry - Evershed's Solictors singlehandedly , allegations of perjury by RM's managers apparently , well I never !.

The legislation that RM broke was from 1997 - The EEC Working Time Directive . It's always regarded itself as above the law and done what it likes , 350 + years of culture , add :lfo & :cfo to the cocktail and you've a long line of cause and effect .