What Billys Answer to "No pay Rise this yearBoys"

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk care to expand ??

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk care to expand ??

Certainly:

2007 strike - called off
Pension campaign - called off
Mail Centre action - called off
Various regional Ballot actions - called off
Withdraw Labour support ballot- called off

There is always some excuse of course - any action will have a collateral consequence of some description - unless of course it's inaction.

[Martin Walsh]

Let examine what you are saying 2007 dispute called off. Well there was an injunction threaten on further action cause of membership records, Liverpool and London were out unoffical an agreement was struck and the membership accepted this in an indivudal ballot with only 10 Branch`s out of 90 vote to reject the agreement.

Pensions campagn not taken up I agree CWU Headquaters did not do enough and was the impetus was lost, But whilst I am up for criticising Headquaters on this issue the fact is that a lot of Branch`s were not up for the fight either. I was at the Northampton national briefing and made a contribution on fighting on pensions and sadly not everyone was on the same page around the country.

Mail centre ballots called off. Well lets examine this the union decided to ballot the mail centres which were effected at the time. Manchester recieved a no vote , Liverpool recieve a yes vote by one vote. Northampton recieved a no vote , Reading recieved a no vote and so did Swindon. Oxford recieved a yes vote , Covertrty did and so did crewe , warrington and oldham and milton keynes Action was called , the liverpool action was subject to an injunction, Covertry had a few issues with delivery members who work in the mail centre. The Hooper report came out the week prior to the action which talked about plans to close protenitally 50% of mail centres. Royal Mail wanted to talk and the CWU accepted. The PEC decided to stand down the action now I accept there was anger in Oxford and some other sites but there are PEC reprsentatives from Liverpool , Milton keynes , Reading , Covertry and Manchester on the PEC and they were in support of the action being stood down.

Personally the mail centre issue is very complex does the union achieve an agreement on the future number of mail centres and get benfits like improved pay and conditions or do we fight mail centre closures on an office by office basis both have plus and downsides. The first one means that some offices will be agreed to close and the second is the current policy which is a failed policy in my opinion.

Now i am not aware of any regional ballots being called off. No union has as many ballots for industrail action as this union.

So thats my take on things.

We not perfect as a union but believe me without the CWU we would be in dire straights.

[weetrogg]

Hey dingo dont forget stockport!!! We managed a 78% yes vote this against a background of unrelenting RM propaganda and a massive EVR/VR programme.

2007 Surely this union with the finances at its disposal should be expected to be able to make sure all the legal requirements for I/A are watertight, as for the vote the propaganda for HQ was a good enough reason for those waverers(jesus managers used CWU quotes to urge acceptence of this shite deal in wtls) plus it was endorsed by the pec anyway now its time to draw a line in the sand.

We now have to regroup and organise to defend our livleyhoods and hopefully we can fightback, but we need to know that our representatives will listen and act in our best interests and not follow their own agendas

Dingo im hearing on the grapevine that the relationship between ward and hayes is a bit frosty at the moment, any truth in that?

[dvbuk55]

Let examine what you are saying 2007 dispute called off. Well there was an injunction threaten on further action cause of membership records, Liverpool and London were out unoffical an agreement was struck and the membership accepted this in an indivudal ballot with only 10 Branch`s out of 90 vote to reject the agreement.

Pensions campagn not taken up I agree CWU Headquaters did not do enough and was the impetus was lost, But whilst I am up for criticising Headquaters on this issue the fact is that a lot of Branch`s were not up for the fight either. I was at the Northampton national briefing and made a contribution on fighting on pensions and sadly not everyone was on the same page around the country.

Mail centre ballots called off. Well lets examine this the union decided to ballot the mail centres which were effected at the time. Manchester recieved a no vote , Liverpool recieve a yes vote by one vote. Northampton recieved a no vote , Reading recieved a no vote and so did Swindon. Oxford recieved a yes vote , Covertrty did and so did crewe , warrington and oldham and milton keynes Action was called , the liverpool action was subject to an injunction, Covertry had a few issues with delivery members who work in the mail centre. The Hooper report came out the week prior to the action which talked about plans to close protenitally 50% of mail centres. Royal Mail wanted to talk and the CWU accepted. The PEC decided to stand down the action now I accept there was anger in Oxford and some other sites but there are PEC reprsentatives from Liverpool , Milton keynes , Reading , Covertry and Manchester on the PEC and they were in support of the action being stood down.

Personally the mail centre issue is very complex does the union achieve an agreement on the future number of mail centres and get benfits like improved pay and conditions or do we fight mail centre closures on an office by office basis both have plus and downsides. The first one means that some offices will be agreed to close and the second is the current policy which is a failed policy in my opinion.

Now i am not aware of any regional ballots being called off. No union has as many ballots for industrail action as this union.

So thats my take on things.

We not perfect as a union but believe me without the CWU we would be in dire straights.

Dingo - I am not trying to be sycophantic here - I genuinely believe you are a caring person willing to go to any lengths to protect your members but with the best will in the world an excuse is an excuse. Sometimes you have to bet it all to achieve and sometimes things don't go according to plan - as someone once said, a battle plan is great til the first shot's fired, then you learn to adapt - we have sadly not learned to adapt and consequently find reasons for not going ahead with what we know is right not what is prudent.

[BELIAL]

I know some people are in tough positions but surely any senior union role not only requires people to be representative(which would be good) but also to demonstrate qualities of leadership and inspiration, armed with more inside info than most of us. Constantly bewailing the lack of resolve of the membership only serves to highlight the failings of our union hierarchy , if you fail to carry the members in pursuit of their own interests then you truly are losing the war for hearts and minds with a vicious employer,a very poor situation.

[Martin Walsh]

The fact is belial I never criticise the membership. I believe members are the same everywhere in the Uk once they have the issues explained to them. The problem is that too many so called leaders of Branch`s and divisonal reps run dont put the info out and leave a vaccum of communications to the membership in their areas.

Yes I do believe that if we had a joined up headquaters all pulling in one direction then that would be better for the membership. Instead we have the two main officers believing that their strategy is better than the others and on top of that all the assistant secretaries pulling in different directions to protect their base and area of authority. The PEC are the piggies in the middle and their role has been undervalued by all officers in my opinion over the last few years.

However whilst this needs to be sorted that still dont let leaders of branch`s off the hook. Some reports have come in that even now some branch`s dont know their was a policy of no savings. This is despite the fact that it was announced at a national breifing twice and at 3 divisonal reps meeting and includied in an ltb which asked branchs display to members.

The question for you is are you really telling me that no blame lies in branchs or divisons and all the ills of this union is at CWU HQs level cause if you are you have not got a clue.

CWU Headquaters needs reforming thats for sure to many rules and regulations holding us back and too many different agendas stopping proper comms. Whatother organisation does a letter to the members have to go through 3 different departments to get out along often with solictors also changing it. But there are too many branch`s and senior other officials not doing what they should be and the membership being left in the dark.

The difference between some areas of the country which are strong and those that are weak is that branch`s and divisons in the strong areas do not wait for comms from CWU HQs but produce comms themselves to the members. More improtantly the biggest communication of the lot is face to face meeting and I can tell you get more out of a meeting face to face with the members than a 1000 ltbs or ciruclars. Believe me I have done over 60 different meeting in 60 different offices over the last 8 weeks and got more to do and believe me when you explain the issues to the members they understand and support.

So in short you wont find me blaming the members thats not my style but leaders of branch`s who fail to do the work are real problems and yes so is CWU HQs lack of a united voice.

Well off to do a couple of meeting with members so over to you !!

[bogstandard]

whilst we're on the subject of embarassing moments what has, or rather has the embarassment of inacurate membership records been rectified.

[BELIAL]

The fact is belial I never criticise the membership. I believe members are the same everywhere in the Uk once they have the issues explained to them. The problem is that too many so called leaders of Branch`s and divisonal reps run dont put the info out and leave a vaccum of communications to the membership in their areas.

Yes I do believe that if we had a joined up headquaters all pulling in one direction then that would be better for the membership. Instead we have the two main officers believing that their strategy is better than the others and on top of that all the assistant secretaries pulling in different directions to protect their base and area of authority. The PEC are the piggies in the middle and their role has been undervalued by all officers in my opinion over the last few years.

However whilst this needs to be sorted that still dont let leaders of branch`s off the hook. Some reports have come in that even now some branch`s dont know their was a policy of no savings. This is despite the fact that it was announced at a national breifing twice and at 3 divisonal reps meeting and includied in an ltb which asked branchs display to members.

The question for you is are you really telling me that no blame lies in branchs or divisons and all the ills of this union is at CWU HQs level cause if you are you have not got a clue.

CWU Headquaters needs reforming thats for sure to many rules and regulations holding us back and too many different agendas stopping proper comms. Whatother organisation does a letter to the members have to go through 3 different departments to get out along often with solictors also changing it. But there are too many branch`s and senior other officials not doing what they should be and the membership being left in the dark.

The difference between some areas of the country which are strong and those that are weak is that branch`s and divisons in the strong areas do not wait for comms from CWU HQs but produce comms themselves to the members. More improtantly the biggest communication of the lot is face to face meeting and I can tell you get more out of a meeting face to face with the members than a 1000 ltbs or ciruclars. Believe me I have done over 60 different meeting in 60 different offices over the last 8 weeks and got more to do and believe me when you explain the issues to the members they understand and support.

So in short you wont find me blaming the members thats not my style but leaders of branch`s who fail to do the work are real problems and yes so is CWU HQs lack of a united voice.

Well off to do a couple of meeting with members so over to you !!

Cracking post Dingo,I'm sure that lots on here will agree with that 100%,I know I do. I'm very happy that you have made it clear that when you refer to Branches your comments apply to branch officers and not the membership in general.
Your comment about "no savings" perfectly sums up the crap situation lots of members are in. I was under the impression that my particular branch officers and Div were on the ball, but to date, not one single official communication regarding savings. Now we are faced with the prospect of widespread "trials" that will produce potential savings and don't you just know that as soon as these so called "trials' are done then they will become working practice and the cuts will be made without discussion .
Perhaps someone who gets to see the bigger picture would care to highlight particular Divisions or branches that seem unwilling to properly protect their members? I'm sure many members just assume that the lack of information and leadership they experience is the same nationwide. I'm also sure that with more transparency and information available to the membership,any,probably long standing branch officials that failed to pull their weight would find themselves seeking other roles.Who needs "wobbly Branch" OFFICIALS.
Thanks for your time ,sincerely appreciated and good luck with todays meetings I'm certain your words will be well received

[BELIAL]

No takers for naming and shaming these branches with "wobbly" officers? I'm sure lots of bemused members would appreciate the info and act on it

[wranglered]

No takers for naming and shaming these branches with "wobbly" officers? I'm sure lots of bemused members would appreciate the info and act on it

I could write a book on my branch but I will only get banned or charged.....

[Big Daz]

No takers for naming and shaming these branches with "wobbly" officers? I'm sure lots of bemused members would appreciate the info and act on it

I could write a book on my branch but I will only get banned or charged.....

Sounds like you need Max Clifford

[wranglered]

Don't think it is THAT interesting...but interesting enough for RMC if I care to set the hare running....

[dvbuk55]

Billy has said that he and the rest of the CWU officers will be taking a pay freeze too - well done Billy - no not really I just made it up.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Billy has said that he and the rest of the CWU officers will be taking a pay freeze too - well done Billy - no not really I just made it up.

Are their rises in anyway linked to the pay deals they gain for us. If not why not.