Ex-MP Mahon leaves Labour Party

[kingtubby]

Old argument...

In that case, what are the new arguments?
It seems to me that either you do something to manage population, or do nothing. Which are you advocating?

[belle smith]

You do nothing to "manage population" not for YOU the GREENS or ANYONE else to dictate who should be allowed to have children and how many.
I would despute the premiss of your point that "something has to be done and soon" NO IT DOESN'T!!! The point i was making is that people, well meaning and intelligent people thought this over a centuary and they were WRONG. nothing was done and the iminent catastrophe never happend. but let me guess it's diffrent this time?

Striaght answer to your question i favour doing nothing, you appear to favour doing something, what? how will you manage population?

[Big Daz]

I saw nothing in green party policy to suggest they are telling people how many children they can have.

In fact its the exact opposite, so lets get our facts straight please.

Lets quote straight from GP policy website shall we?

http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/downloads/mfsspp.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P106 The Green Party holds that
the number of children people
have should be a matter of free
choice.[/i]

If you read the link I posted earlier in this debate you will see that there was nothing in that said people should only have a certain amount of children.

[belle smith]

did i comment on your link?
was responding to a point made by kingtubby and true blue terrier, the clue was that i quoted them.
How about you get your own facts straight!

[Big Daz]

You have misunderstood


You said

not for YOU the GREENS or ANYONE else to dictate who should be allowed to have children and how many.

You have implied in that statement that the greens are wanting to dictate who should be allowed to have children and how many.

Therefore I pointed out that the greens and specifically the green party for england and wales does not have that policy and I pointed out that it is clear from the link I posted earlier that the green party does not have that policy.

My facts are straight as i have backed them with links to show the direct assertion that was posted by another poster earlier and your implied assertion about green party policy are incorrect.

[BELIAL]

Lovely big topic ,but still a simple one ;Planet earth = x million square kms ,Fixed ,finite and unchangeable. Productive capacity can be upped ,but by definition it must be sustainable. There's a big difference between 1.5 and 20 billion people Birth rates fall as average income increases

[Big Daz]

I think it's time to teraform Mars!!!!!

A simple fact is that Planet earth will not be here one day when the sun goes supa nova, what happens to the human race then?

[BELIAL]

I think it's time to teraform Mars!!!!!

A simple fact is that Planet earth will not be here one day when the sun goes supa nova, what happens to the human race then?

Complaints about damp mail fall to an all time low,and rubber bands become less of an issue

[belle smith]

no misunderstanding daz. if you want to be pedantic i said the greens genrally not the green party of England and wales, but i haden't read your link and to an extent was including them. so i take that back, but not entierly, they clearly want population reduced. why the hell do they have a policy on this? looks like from your links, that they favour "encouraging" this not dictating it. If the encouragement fails will they be cool with population growth?

you have made clear that thier policy is that "the green party holds that the number of children people have should be a matter of free choice" other parties don't genrally make satements like that, it goes without saying because they don't have a fixation with reducing population.

The point i was making is that this is unnecasary, you either misuderstood or ignored it.

btw the greens left wing, thanks for the regressive taxes on fuels.

[Big Daz]

http://www.gptu.net/gleft/glhcorn.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Launch statement of Green Left
Green Left has been launched as a network for socialists and other radicals in the Green Party of England and Wales. It will act as an outreach body that will communicate the party's radical policies to socialists and other anti-capitalists outside the party.

Green Left (GL) is based on the assumption that capitalism is a system that wrecks the planet and promotes war. A green society must be based on economic, political and social justice. GL in short works to promote ecosocialism as a solution to our planetary ills.

GL supports the democratic structures in the party and encourages transparency, accountability and engagement in all organs of the party. We also see the Green Party as a 'bottom up' political organisation where the principles of the membership are paramount and not a 'top down' one where a self-designated political elite decide on policies and principles.

GL aims to increase and improve the international links of the Green Party, building links with radical greens and ecosocialists across the planet. It will work closely with members of other European Green Parties to reform the workings of the European Green Party structures that must be democratised. Green politics must realise the slogan 'think globally, act locally' by linking practical local campaigns to global issues of ecology, democracy, justice and liberation.

GL aims to act within the Green Party so as to raise Green Party politics to meet the demands of its radical policies. Green politics needs to be based on dynamic campaigning and hard intellectual groundwork to create workable alternatives.

GL aims to build regional campaigns and contribute to coalition-building through coherent alignments and open discussion with progressive anti-capitalists. The movement that is required to address the issues across Britain, Europe and the world will not be the sole preserve of one party. The movement requires the development of united action by progressive forces including organisations formed by working people to defend their interests in the workplace. Within this diverse movement GL will stand firmly in favour of the libertarian and democratic traditions of ecosocialism.

It is vitally important that the Green Party works to develop the continuing peace, environmental and social movements. An orientation to organised working people through the Green Party Trade Union Group (GPTU) also requires maximum support from GL, with the emphasis on supporting radical and rank and file currents in the unions. Likewise, GL should seek to promote organisation and solidarity amongst currently unorganised and marginalised groups.

GL will work to enhance Green Party contributions to demonstrations, marches and other solidarity events. Greens must be active on issues that affect ordinary working people in their everyday lives and aim to be known as amongst their strongest defenders.

While GL is keen to build links with members of faith communities, and to fight alongside them against intolerance and discrimination, it will not compromise on human rights - including issues concerning women, the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities, and people with disabilities.

Since the activism of William Morris in the Social Democratic Federation and Socialist League in the late nineteenth century, there has been an ecosocialist tradition in Britain. Green Left believes that ecosocialism provides an alternative to a society based on alienation, economic exploitation, corporate rule, ecological destruction and wars. Our analysis demands that in the best tradition of the historic left we 'agitate, educate and organise' to build such an alternative.

The time has come for drawing together forces that can present a serious challenge to the disastrous neo-liberal project. We believe that 'another world is possible', based on ecological and socialist values. In conclusion, Green Left would work to enable you to live in a society based on peace, ecological balance, economic equality and inclusion. Come and join us!

[belle smith]

That was a party politcal broadcast on behalf of the Green Party.

your point is? that they don't favour regressive taxation? they don't seek population reduction?

Fine your a green and i'm not, think we might have to agree to disagree.

[Big Daz]

Taxation?

Take it up with the government of the last 12 years.

http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/policyp ... nomics.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems radical and progressive not regressive to me.

But surely nobody wants more taxation
That depends on what it provides – good
public services need money. But taxation
doesn’t just raise money – taxes on
pollution or the use of resources would
encourage more sustainable ways of
producing goods. If these taxes replaced
VAT then prices would not rise overall.As people changed their spending
patterns in response to these taxes they
would pay less.

[belle smith]

seems flimsy and light to me.
greens do support regressive tax on fuels but don't they, even lobby for them and they are far more effective as a lobby group than a political party.
How many billions were spent on EU emission trading scheme, money given to utilites companies, and no additional money was given to help pensioners when energy prices spiked last winter. money well spent.

did greens lobby for the emissions trading scheme?