MARCH 2009 PEC REPORT

[johnnyp]

All who sort out delivery lenghs dont actually do a delivery. so don't really care. To be honest, the union is useless, after being a member for 18 years i resigned. Why should i pay for union fat cats pension when i'm losing mine. We constantly get sold down the river, the last pay deal being a prime example. There will be no change in the direction of the union until you hit them where it hurts, the pocket. That we should be prepared for a walk in excess of 3.5 hours shows how out of step they really are. They wont have to do it, so they don't care.

Well said Joe...another month goes by, another PEC report of nothingness...and a proposal on pay to RM the day before it was due...and of course the abandonment of the 3.5 hour delivery span and the opening of the door for last letters at teatime or beyond...but our subs go up and the gravy train rumbles on because, as yet, us mugs have not started to pull our subs en-masse...

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here

I am not still here...I was sacked for fighting the CWU corner and await my NAP in three weeks....
It is not a good place to work and it is getting worse....the only way to change it is to tackle the issues, not shy away from them, which is something I believe the CWU hierachy are guilty of...at all levels....

In my opinion if we continue down this road it will be as if the CWU does not exist in the workforce...so what is the point of subscribing to keep the chosen few in nice cushy little numbers?

This inability to face up to the car crash that is coming is very disappointing....tell me, do you really think the last few years have been a great success for the CWU? I don't.
Interesting to learn PK's report is unofficial...we really would be getting excited if we knew what was going on behind those closed doors in Wimbledon....

I am sorry to hear that you have been sacked for standing up for your rights and wish you all the best at your NAP.

Yes other then the Pensions issue i do think the last few years have been a success for the CWU,i come from a branch and a division that has made the most from pay and mod and got its members improved attendances along with earnings and full time employment if thats not progress then i give in.

[dvbuk55]

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here.We need to get real here lads,mail volumes are down,automation is knocking at the door,a massive chunk of our indoor work will go,so how do we make up for those lost hours to keep a full time job a shorter working week would be nice,but as weve only reduced it by 90 mins in the 23 years ive done i really can not see a massive reduction coming to soon A longer delivery span(and yes i am a delivery postie)will be introduced to protect full time jobs weather we like it or not,the CWU wont have much choice im afraid and its not something we can really moan about is it.

Are you taking the piss?

No im just telling it how it is.

All too often a realist is criticised for being negative. I have to agree with wranglered, the last few years have been a disaster for the CWU, perhaps disaster is too strong a word but they have certailnly been less than succesful. It's a bit like Fergie saying losing at Fulham was the best thing that could have happened to them when the CWU try to make a case for victory.... when clearly we work harder, the pay rises have been derisive and the pension fiasco ........ I rest my case

[wranglered]

Thank you Johnny P...certainly not in your branch....might be in your division though?...shows what a shambles we have on the ground in many places.....

....I will say that much of the last pay agreement was, in the hands of an accomplished rep, a lot stronger for negotiating than people give it credit...

...however there are very few such reps in my branch and those that do actually fight the fight find themselves ostracised..

...add in a hostile management nationwide and things were going to fall apart, which I believe is what is happening...

...give Crozier credit, he offered to modernise the CWU as well as RM...to be honest he had a valid point....

...it has been said many times that we need to communicate...this forum does exactly that, but when we have officials in my branch and division who are vehemently opposed to RMC, what chance have we got...the scumbags even pass on my postings to the NDC...like they may do now I have said this...or try to get me banned again...

...past caring...fighting my own battles...with some help from HQ.....long live free speech and tolerance of different opinions!!

[Big Daz]

Simple question wranglered


How would you propose I dissagree with your postings if I found something in them I didnt agree with without interfering with your right to free speech or not tolerating your different opinion?

As to officals in the branch/division being opposed to RMC, that I found rather alarming, Ive not come across that attitude yet. What is it they dont like? What has led you to formulating that viewpoint?

To be familiar with the views of OPG/CWU mbrs from all over the country in many different types of workplaces is a good thing I would have thought?

[BELIAL]

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here.We need to get real here lads,mail volumes are down,automation is knocking at the door,a massive chunk of our indoor work will go,so how do we make up for those lost hours to keep a full time job a shorter working week would be nice,but as weve only reduced it by 90 mins in the 23 years ive done i really can not see a massive reduction coming to soon A longer delivery span(and yes i am a delivery postie)will be introduced to protect full time jobs weather we like it or not,the CWU wont have much choice im afraid and its not something we can really moan about is it.

Are you taking the piss?

No im just telling it how it is.

Now what does this remind you of, 'if you don't like it ,leave';'volumes are down';'WSM's will slash indoor work'; 'get real'; 'work harder for less'; 'there's nothing you can do about it';
Could have come straight out of the pages of the courrier or from our old chum :cfo .Lets hope you are not parroting the views of a certain Mr Ward cos if the official union line is work more for less and accept massive job cuts ,well then there is not much point in the union being there at all, is there?

[dvbuk55]

Royal mail will love to have a longer delivery span broken into Two and that way they WILL HAVE TWO PART TIME POSTIES DOING IT FFS. Knowbody but those out of touch with reality can really believe it would safeguard full time jobs. How many times do we have to be lied to before people wake up? RM said they had no plans to convert F/T to P/T jobs and as we all know it was a LIE they said the pension was safe another LIE! The board of RM with the Governments collusion need to make as many people in the UK P/T aside from saving a huge amount on pensions because any O/T does not require pension contributions from RM you have a broken workforce that will do anything to get a bit of extra cash just to pay the bills and its not just RM but ALL jobs because if you have a worker with Two jobs and they lose one the Government does not pay so much dole as the worker still has some money coming in and the worker will take anything else going just to make up the shortfall and it also fixes the dole figures for PR reasons come election time.
If HQ are stupid enough to think that longer delivery spans will save F/T jobs then i have a good nursery school down the road from me where they can get a good start in their education and if they fail that then we have a few smart toddlers that are not so gullible as they seem so might well be worth considering for a position at HQ!

I've said before - I worked in the ESI prior to privatisation but running up to it, and in fact took EVR on what should have been the last day of a nationalised industry but due to various things the privatisation was stalled for 12 months - I was then a member of another union and believe me what they would agree to "on our behalf" was nothing short of criminal just so they could be "negotiating" for the members - regardless of what they were negotiating away. The point I am trying to make is that what the shop floor has to endure is secondary to the motives and aspirations of the leadership. Take this fallacy about D2D, the cry is "it will preserve full time jobs by becoming part of the work load" - what tosh - it IS part of the work load if the preparation and delivery is to be done within the current work hours - so where are we creating more hours? If part timers are delivering them within their contracted hours already and we go to a pre-prepared "bulk D2D envelope" is that going to create more hours? And if we have the same for full time duties, which is on the cards, would that not in fact CUT full time hours because the collation would no longer need to be done.

As you say there are those who will push the union line regardless of how appropriate or rather inappropriate that line is. When it is ratified by vote - it will be "Well you voted for it" - as if we are the architects of the plan as well as its downfall.

[johnnyp]

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here.We need to get real here lads,mail volumes are down,automation is knocking at the door,a massive chunk of our indoor work will go,so how do we make up for those lost hours to keep a full time job a shorter working week would be nice,but as weve only reduced it by 90 mins in the 23 years ive done i really can not see a massive reduction coming to soon A longer delivery span(and yes i am a delivery postie)will be introduced to protect full time jobs weather we like it or not,the CWU wont have much choice im afraid and its not something we can really moan about is it.

Are you taking the piss?

No im just telling it how it is.

Now what does this remind you of, 'if you don't like it ,leave';'volumes are down';'WSM's will slash indoor work'; 'get real'; 'work harder for less'; 'there's nothing you can do about it';
Could have come straight out of the pages of the courrier or from our old chum :cfo .Lets hope you are not parroting the views of a certain Mr Ward cos if the official union line is work more for less and accept massive job cuts ,well then there is not much point in the union being there at all, is there?

So are you saying that its all make believe then mate? And everythings ok really,and its all a wind up And ive fallen for it big time

[Big Daz]

IPS volumes are down in my delivery office or else the mangers put everyone in a trance and change the clocks every morning.

Im very sorry if anybody is offended by this but 20 to 30 mins day day out is the time the IPS is finishing early and its not down to mbrs starting early as they only throw off their walksorted.

Its this sort of situation that needs to be utlised for our benefit and used to help gain the SWW! To RML its a excuse to increase the AG level within my office (currently at stage 2 dissagrement!!!!)

[johnnyp]

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here.We need to get real here lads,mail volumes are down,automation is knocking at the door,a massive chunk of our indoor work will go,so how do we make up for those lost hours to keep a full time job a shorter working week would be nice,but as weve only reduced it by 90 mins in the 23 years ive done i really can not see a massive reduction coming to soon A longer delivery span(and yes i am a delivery postie)will be introduced to protect full time jobs weather we like it or not,the CWU wont have much choice im afraid and its not something we can really moan about is it.

Are you taking the piss?

No im just telling it how it is.

Now what does this remind you of, 'if you don't like it ,leave';'volumes are down';'WSM's will slash indoor work'; 'get real'; 'work harder for less'; 'there's nothing you can do about it';
Could have come straight out of the pages of the courrier or from our old chum :cfo .Lets hope you are not parroting the views of a certain Mr Ward cos if the official union line is work more for less and accept massive job cuts ,well then there is not much point in the union being there at all, is there?

So are you saying that its all make believe then mate? And everythings ok really,and its all a wind up And ive fallen for it big time

YES you have "fallen for it"! Just because you want to sell something that the people here do not agree with you take it personal! If your frames down then dont think everyone`s is cause mines not i deliver more for longer for less than ever before and all done under CWU HQs and the peoples Government! You can try to excuse it if you will but I WONT buy it and other members will not either!

I am not selling anything and am not taking anything personal mate

[BELIAL]

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here.We need to get real here lads,mail volumes are down,automation is knocking at the door,a massive chunk of our indoor work will go,so how do we make up for those lost hours to keep a full time job a shorter working week would be nice,but as weve only reduced it by 90 mins in the 23 years ive done i really can not see a massive reduction coming to soon A longer delivery span(and yes i am a delivery postie)will be introduced to protect full time jobs weather we like it or not,the CWU wont have much choice im afraid and its not something we can really moan about is it.

Are you taking the piss?

No im just telling it how it is.

Now what does this remind you of, 'if you don't like it ,leave';'volumes are down';'WSM's will slash indoor work'; 'get real'; 'work harder for less'; 'there's nothing you can do about it';
Could have come straight out of the pages of the courrier or from our old chum :cfo .Lets hope you are not parroting the views of a certain Mr Ward cos if the official union line is work more for less and accept massive job cuts ,well then there is not much point in the union being there at all, is there?

So are you saying that its all make believe then mate? And everythings ok really,and its all a wind up And ive fallen for it big time

That's a familiar sort of dismissive response,a wee bit twisty. Can't see where I mentioned make believe or everything being ok?
Also I wouldn't dare presume for a second that you had fallen for anything
Initially thought you were having a grin, but your first response dispelled that belief. Seemed to me that I'd heard all the lines you spouted at an earlier time from another?side.
Where do you get the"massive chunk" reduction in indoor work from? RM's best estimate for WSM savings is 20mins per duty ;local field trials best results have shown 5-7mins savings per duty, hardly "massive". Add to that the extra throughput time at MC's or hub DO's and you've got to wonder if man hours aren't increasing.
WSM's will have no positive impact on IPS whatsoever ,indeed if staffing levels are not adjusted to cope with the new plant at mc's then they will only result in the reduction of walksorted mail arriving at DO's.
Add to that your view that by extending delivery times you will somehow protect jobs,well you'd have to be three shades of thick shitter to swallow that pony,it just don't make sense.
Reality and how it is ,is stuff like gravity;speed of light ;tidal motion and sunrise. Wage rates; redundancy ;longer deliveries; Fred Goodwins £740 million pension are all within the control of man and not fixed immutable physical laws

[Big Daz]

I think PK's report shows very clearley the WSM's are not all they are made out to be.

[johnnyp]

Just what Royal Mail want a divided workforce without a union influence.The last thing we need to be doing is slaging off the CWU because make no mistake without them this would not be a good place to work,and before you say its not then WHY are you still here.We need to get real here lads,mail volumes are down,automation is knocking at the door,a massive chunk of our indoor work will go,so how do we make up for those lost hours to keep a full time job a shorter working week would be nice,but as weve only reduced it by 90 mins in the 23 years ive done i really can not see a massive reduction coming to soon A longer delivery span(and yes i am a delivery postie)will be introduced to protect full time jobs weather we like it or not,the CWU wont have much choice im afraid and its not something we can really moan about is it.

Are you taking the piss?

No im just telling it how it is.

Now what does this remind you of, 'if you don't like it ,leave';'volumes are down';'WSM's will slash indoor work'; 'get real'; 'work harder for less'; 'there's nothing you can do about it';
Could have come straight out of the pages of the courrier or from our old chum :cfo .Lets hope you are not parroting the views of a certain Mr Ward cos if the official union line is work more for less and accept massive job cuts ,well then there is not much point in the union being there at all, is there?

So are you saying that its all make believe then mate? And everythings ok really,and its all a wind up And ive fallen for it big time

That's a familiar sort of dismissive response,a wee bit twisty. Can't see where I mentioned make believe or everything being ok?
Also I wouldn't dare presume for a second that you had fallen for anything
Initially thought you were having a grin, but your first response dispelled that belief. Seemed to me that I'd heard all the lines you spouted at an earlier time from another?side.
Where do you get the"massive chunk" reduction in indoor work from? RM's best estimate for WSM savings is 20mins per duty ;local field trials best results have shown 5-7mins savings per duty, hardly "massive". Add to that the extra throughput time at MC's or hub DO's and you've got to wonder if man hours aren't increasing.
WSM's will have no positive impact on IPS whatsoever ,indeed if staffing levels are not adjusted to cope with the new plant at mc's then they will only result in the reduction of walksorted mail arriving at DO's.
Add to that your view that by extending delivery times you will somehow protect jobs,well you'd have to be three shades of thick shitter to swallow that pony,it just don't make sense.
Reality and how it is ,is stuff like gravity;speed of light ;tidal motion and sunrise. Wage rates; redundancy ;longer deliveries; Fred Goodwins £740 million pension are all within the control of man and not fixed immutable physical laws

Thank you for taking the time and explaining those facts and figures on WSMs etc for me Belial.

[BELIAL]

Any time

[teamtalk]

Ok i read this hoping it would be about the CWU pay claim for 2009.

Have a read the wrong thing? Have we put in a pay claim yet?
Really see our pay claim this year as being a very big issue.

Sorry if i've posted in the wrong bit or am reading the wrong think i'm new round here

[POSTMAN]

Ok i read this hoping it would be about the CWU pay claim for 2009.

Have a read the wrong thing? Have we put in a pay claim yet?
Really see our pay claim this year as being a very big issue.

Sorry if i've posted in the wrong bit or am reading the wrong think i'm new round here

2009 Pay Claim

Dave Ward has written to Dale Haddon, Royal Mail HR Director, outlining our pay claim due on 1st April. The letter recognises external factors such as the recession and the fall in mail volumes but points out that Royal Mail have just made a profit, are likely to have the pension deficit removed, have confirmed that they don’t need any extra money to fund new machinery and are likely to make large savings on their modernisation programme. The letter argues that our claim has to be seen in the context of all of this.

The claim itself is therefore asking for significant progress to be made towards the joint commitment to bring the basic wage up to £400 a week, towards achieving the 35-hour week, an improved job security package and improved family friendly policies. We do accept that we are unlikely to achieve all this in one go but we don’t accept that we can’t make any advances this year and certainly won’t accept a wage freeze.

Also http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 18&t=15523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;