No English, no stamp: Update: He's been sacked

[Tman]

Maybe so, but does that complaining carry on to this day? I don't think so.....

Do people complain about present-day immigration? Hmmmm

Forever destined to talk about something other than the original point.......

[andy2007]

I wouldn't know, Links.
Who were you thinking of when you penned that desperate polemic? Seems like it could fit several posters..

LOL. I would never think YOU have a problem with anything little brother! wernt even thinking of you! in fact i nothing you! LOL. Your thoughts mean NOTHING to me lol. I use the cap locks or what ever you call em cause i dont care but you seem to little brother! Still like the rest of us it dont matter, still if the cap fits? Still lolling over life but see you aint! LOL.

Please don't resort to personal attacks. I know Tman has a way of winding people up. But you might give his arguments credence, if you keep reacting like that.

[andy2007]

Maybe so, but does that complaining carry on to this day? I don't think so.....

Do people complain about present-day immigration? Hmmmm

Forever destined to talk about something other than the original point.......

Are you so sure that ayone will stil be complaining about the 20th, and 21st Century Immigrants in a few Centuries?
I'm not. Because they will have been excepted. And a new group wil be blamed for all the Countries ills. Immigrants are an easy target. And always have been, for those who want to find a scapegoat.

[Tman]

Are you so sure that ayone will stil be complaining about the 20th, and 21st Century Immigrants in a few Centuries?

No I'm not, and I'm sure they won't.

I'm not. Because they will have been excepted. And a new group wil be blamed for all the Countries ills. Immigrants are an easy target. And always have been, for those who want to find a scapegoat.

Indigenous people who live in areas of "high ethnicity" might find it patronising (if not insulting) that their concerns could be brushed off as "scape-goating". Too glib...

Please don't resort to personal attacks. I know Tman has a way of winding people up. But you might give his arguments credence, if you keep reacting like that.

What are you saying then, my arguments don't have credence? So who made you judge and jury on what's right or wrong, correct or incorrect?
Or do we all just follow the same old arguments like sheep, and all the dissenters are wrong? Great forum this would be then, wouldn't it Andy?
Or maybe endless LOL LOL LOL LOL posts mixed in with a few :mfo :mfo LOLs are all that's required now?

[heapsy]

I think people are going off the thread a little here. The language issue, which started this thread in the first place, is a major issue. Imagine, the Welsh only speaking Welsh. The Scots only speaking Gaelic, (which, incidentley is NOT the true language of Scotland), then throw in the others, Serbo Croat, Polish etc and the other eastern european languages, + Punjabi, Hindi etc and you would have complete chaos. We HAVE to have a standard language and that is ENGLISH, no ifs, buts, or maybes. IF someone can, and does want to speak another language, that of their ORIGINAL homeland, or of their forefathers, then that IS their right. BUT it is totally ridiculous to say that they DO NOT have to learn ENGLISH!

[BELIAL]

One of my cats is having a poo

[johnsouthwales]

maybe they should have got one of those foreign to english pocket translators. or one of those letts travel guide things..

[BELIAL]

They seem fairly content with a litter tray

[andy2007]

Are you so sure that ayone will stil be complaining about the 20th, and 21st Century Immigrants in a few Centuries?

No I'm not, and I'm sure they won't.

I'm not. Because they will have been excepted. And a new group wil be blamed for all the Countries ills. Immigrants are an easy target. And always have been, for those who want to find a scapegoat.

Indigenous people who live in areas of "high ethnicity" might find it patronising (if not insulting) that their concerns could be brushed off as "scape-goating". Too glib...
I do live in an area of "high ethnicity", and I have heard a lot of people blaming the high unemployment, and high Council Tax on them. But the only part of that with any validity, is the fact that a lot of leaflets, and other information, has to be provided in many languages.

I've even heard some people refer to an area a couple of miles from me as a "spot the White guy" area! Personally, I find it disgusting that people still think like that. I've never had any problems with the "ethnics". You do get the odd chancer, who uses the "race card" to try to get what they want, instead of working for it. But you also get plenty of Whites, who defraud the Benifits Agency. Are they any better?

Please don't resort to personal attacks. I know Tman has a way of winding people up. But you might give his arguments credence, if you keep reacting like that.

What are you saying then, my arguments don't have credence? So who made you judge and jury on what's right or wrong, correct or incorrect?
Or do we all just follow the same old arguments like sheep, and all the dissenters are wrong? Great forum this would be then, wouldn't it Andy?
Or maybe endless LOL LOL LOL LOL posts mixed in with a few :mfo :mfo LOLs are all that's required now?

Sorry for the offence I obviously caused, but so far, you have either ignored, or belittled everyone who disagreed with you. And haven't provided ANY reasoned arguments against what others have said. You even admitted that our arguments about past Immigrants are genuine, in your reply to me (see the first 2 lines).

So although I don't consider myself to be Judge or Jury, about what's said on here. Unless of course it contravenes the rules, or upsets someone (when of course I'm obliged to). I do think that sticking stubbornly to your views, without even giving proper consideration to anyone else, completely destroys the credibility of your viewpoint.

I may of course be wrong. But it's my opinion, and I'm just as entitled to it, as you are to yours. All it would take, to change my opinion of your views on Immigration, would be for you to take other people seriously, and provide counter-arguments. Rather than just dismissing us out of hand, and criticising us.

My comment to Linkinpark, was specifically about your opinion that those who disagreed with you, were incapable of providing a proper counter-argument. If people resort to personal attacks, then that would back up that argument.

If you feel that I have gone too far with my comments, then please feel free to complain to either Postman, or TBT. If I have overstepped the mark, they can deal with me, in just the same way as anyone else on here. I'm not immune.

[andy2007]

I think people are going off the thread a little here. The language issue, which started this thread in the first place, is a major issue. Imagine, the Welsh only speaking Welsh. The Scots only speaking Gaelic, (which, incidentley is NOT the true language of Scotland), then throw in the others, Serbo Croat, Polish etc and the other eastern european languages, + Punjabi, Hindi etc and you would have complete chaos. We HAVE to have a standard language and that is ENGLISH, no ifs, buts, or maybes. IF someone can, and does want to speak another language, that of their ORIGINAL homeland, or of their forefathers, then that IS their right. BUT it is totally ridiculous to say that they DO NOT have to learn ENGLISH!

Sorry, you're right about us getting sidetracked.

As for the language barrier: In Wales, many jobs require you to be fluent in both Welsh and English. You even get some job adverts, which are printed in Welsh, just to make sure you can understand it. Although of course, it does depend on what type of job it is.

So why should people who DON'T speak English, be prevented from getting access to important services?
You don't have to speak Welsh, to be served in Wales. So why must you be fluent in English, to be served in England?
Does the fact that I'm a White Englishman, make me in some way superior?
No! There was a time, when people thought that anyone who wasn't White, was inferior. That was the argument for the Slave Trade: They were inferior people, so it was ok.

[johnsouthwales]

some jobs in wales you have to speak welsh..some council posts demand it.. cant see why, i'm sure the welsh speaker can speak in english if they wanted to but dont cos theyre awkward lol.. welsh tourism usually request welsh to be spoken in job description (even if welsh isn't a legal language).
some manual work needs welsh speaker, things like a store that supplies things for farming communities, like a farmers store. feeds, wellies and things farmers need.. and i wont be suprised if you need to speak welsh in some post offices, usually the rural ones.. some teaching posts or colleges require welsh speaker.

[Tman]

Sorry for the offence I obviously caused, but so far, you have either ignored, or belittled everyone who disagreed with you.

What I asked for Andy, was any examples to back up the cliche "how immigrants have enriched our culture" and aside from endless retorts of "how Britain has always had immigrants etc etc" no answers have been forthcoming.

And haven't provided ANY reasoned arguments against what others have said. You even admitted that our arguments about past Immigrants are genuine, in your reply to me (see the first 2 lines).

I never disagreed with that point Andy, so what "reasoned arguments" could I have given? It wasn't the point of the thread, though. I'm sorry to say you've obviously missed the original premise too then (even though I seem to have repeated it several times now) which is a shame.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Sorry for the offence I obviously caused, but so far, you have either ignored, or belittled everyone who disagreed with you.

What I asked for Andy, was any examples to back up the cliche "how immigrants have enriched our culture" and aside from endless retorts of "how Britain has always had immigrants etc etc" no answers have been forthcoming.

How about that they were eventually assimilated into the population and their skills, unique characteristics and language became part of the fabric of our society of therefore culture. I think this is what people certainly me have been trying to get across.

[heapsy]

I think people are going off the thread a little here. The language issue, which started this thread in the first place, is a major issue. Imagine, the Welsh only speaking Welsh. The Scots only speaking Gaelic, (which, incidentley is NOT the true language of Scotland), then throw in the others, Serbo Croat, Polish etc and the other eastern european languages, + Punjabi, Hindi etc and you would have complete chaos. We HAVE to have a standard language and that is ENGLISH, no ifs, buts, or maybes. IF someone can, and does want to speak another language, that of their ORIGINAL homeland, or of their forefathers, then that IS their right. BUT it is totally ridiculous to say that they DO NOT have to learn ENGLISH!

Sorry, you're right about us getting sidetracked.

As for the language barrier: In Wales, many jobs require you to be fluent in both Welsh and English. You even get some job adverts, which are printed in Welsh, just to make sure you can understand it. Although of course, it does depend on what type of job it is.

So why should people who DON'T speak English, be prevented from getting access to important services?
You don't have to speak Welsh, to be served in Wales. So why must you be fluent in English, to be served in England?
Does the fact that I'm a White Englishman, make me in some way superior?
No! There was a time, when people thought that anyone who wasn't White, was inferior. That was the argument for the Slave Trade: They were inferior people, so it was ok.

I don't know about the Enlgish/Welsh thing in Wales for certain jobs although those people needing a service should still be able to speak English. We should try to help those who come to this country, provided that they are entitled to ( another thread here maybe? ) My point is that without a standard language there would be chaos. Imagine China without Mandarin, India and Pakistan without Enlgish?
Many african countries use the language introduced by the colonial powers of yesterday to communicate at national level. Chad (French) etc.
We simply cannot keep up with the many different languages and dialects that are now spoken in the UK. The eatern europeans have brought with them about 10 languages alone. The middle east has about 6, and that doesn't include local dialects. How do we manage a country where English has in many places become optional? Legally speaking, English is the official language of these islands, both spoken and written. It has to be that way. Many languages are now considered to be archaic ( technically not the right word maybe ), that is to say that they have not evolved. Look at how Enlgish has crept in to other languages, especially for technological advancement, because those language have not got words to describe such a thing. Engineers around the world must first learn English to qualify in engineering! Too many people on here think that we are having a pop at foreigners just for the sake of it. All countries have an official language. For those of you who think "what about when we go on holiday?" that is very different. It is a temporary situation and as has already been posted by several, myself included, that they try to speak some of the local language.
One last point is this, let us the British thank our forefathers for introducing such a rich, adaptable language such as ours, because without it the world would be totally stuffed!

[Tman]

How about that they were eventually assimilated into the population and their skills, unique characteristics and language became part of the fabric of our society of therefore culture.

OK then, so what, in your opinion, were these "skills and characteristics"? That's all I'm asking................

I think this is what people certainly me have been trying to get across.

I know, but it wasn't (for about the tenth time of saying it) what I asked..........