London calling

[Martin Walsh]

Postman Divisonal Reps meet all Branch`s within their divison on a monthly basis, in London becuase of the transport links we meet more often especially at times like this.

Divisonal Reps meet every 3 month and often talk to each other on the phone or email or anyother meeting we are jointly.

Look London dont think they can win on its own thats not what we saying at all. However as a divison we can only ballot London and pehaps the fact that we are sticking together has meant that despite the fact we have 5 offices who have exhausted the IR framework management have yet to notify us that they are taking executive action. Whereas in other areas who dont stand together have had executive action imposed.

Dvbuk the fact London is based near CWU HQ has nothing to do with anything. Those in the know will understand they dont interfere in our comm as we dont theirs.

London has always communicated with our members whether it was on the way forwards , PBS , Pay and Mod or now. The reason London can stick together is due to the hard work we all do to make sure our members are aware of whats going on hence we do our own comms rather than wait for CWU HQs.

Belial your obviously to clever for me as I couldt make head or tail of your comment.

But believe me when I say if they attempt to take executive action we will ballot London and we will deliver a yes vote. Those of you who know me know what I say is true.

Industrial action I am afaid is the only way. Work to rules , doing the job properly or overtime bans dont work. What if they take people off pay which they did at Streatham and Watford because they believed they should be working harder. We would very soon be out unoffically and whilst sometimes that produces good results no one controls unofficail action neither us or Royal Mail.

So strike action which is aimed at maxiimum effect on Royal Mail with least effect on our members pockets is the best way forward.

[andy2007]

Dingo, I realise that there is blame at all levels. But what you need to bear in mind is: When we have stood our ground, and taken action. It is often undermined, by people higher up in the Union (usually HQ). There were a couple of examples, just during the '07 Strike. But as others have pointed out: There have been more recent problems.

Yes, of course, there are Offices where they aren't standing their ground. And that is undermining the rest of us. But although I can't condone their behaviour. I CAN understand it. They're probably afraid that the Management threats of a worse situation if they don't surrender, will actually happen, because of what's happened in the recent past. Now I know that no-ones perfect. We all make bad decisions from time to time. But there have been quite a few in recent years.

Does that mean that we should give up?
No, of course not! Far from it. It just means that we need to tell people such as yourself. And if the opportunity arrives, to Ward and Hayes. How we feel, and hope that we can convince them, to change their approach to IA, and their negotiations with RM.

I know that it's easy to blame HQ for everything. Even when some of the blame lies locally. But surely you can see, that at a time like this, we NEED some leadership from above. We need someone to bring us all together, show us a well thought out plan to fight (not neccessarily through IA) the damage to our service, and to our jobs.

[Thorby Bislam]

the area reps in our branch are holding the line on NO AGREEMENT on business plan savings. the local reps however are being told that if they dont agree then the next proposal will be much worse. local management are getting amongst the memebrs and telling them that the cwu are blocking buy downs and causing bigger saving cuts as a result the members are putting pressure on local reps to accept the proposals. by the time the area reps are getting to hear of this the deal is done and dusted. there isnt a lot of support from hq, there stock answer is keep negotiating but dont agree. the sheer nonsense of this stance is that area reps run out of arguments and royal mail implement without agreement and NO resistance from local members.

Exactly what happened here. We were gathered round the DBF and there was a show of hands. Only a few (inc me) voted in line with our position. The rest agreed with it and it was carried.
You know the irony of it ? I'll actually benefit from it.

[dvbuk55]

I sit and wait in anticipation.

I think that there is probably more at stake than Londons position in the bigger picture and I think that the drip drip of agreement will undermine any strongholds sooner rather than later and that in the end will be the death knell because HQ will, despite opposition from members, fall in line with RM because in truth they have no other choice. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will understand the logic of that.

[rockytony67]

I sit and wait in anticipation.

I think that there is probably more at stake than Londons position in the bigger picture and I think that the drip drip of agreement will undermine any strongholds sooner rather than later and that in the end will be the death knell because HQ will, despite opposition from members, fall in line with RM because in truth they have no other choice. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will understand the logic of that.

So are you saying dvbuk that all your criticism of HQ is wrong, because according to you they are following the only choice open to them

[borders]

RM have been very clever over time in changing the make up of the workforce. in our office on the late shift we have many foreign students , young people and part-time women. i have spoken to many of them and in the case of the foreign students one of the conditions of their visa agreement is that they are not allowed to take part in any strike action. the youngsters only see the job as temporary and for the women it tops up the family income. i spoke to my Rep yesterday about why he is in talks with RM over savings etc. he told me this has been going on for several years now, making savings in the office, it is not a new thing.RM are picking us off one by one and when the local rep calls a meeting to discuss what we should do about it , apart from the fact that barely no-one turns up, he cannot get a mandate from the members to fight it. he would love to tell the manager to shove his cutbacks up his arse but the members are not telling him to do that. i agree with Dingo who i think said that the Union HQ has concentrated more on the political side rather than the industrial side and i believe RM is purposely driving in as many cuts as possible [ where they can get away with it ] whilst every ones eyes are on the Part Privatisation debate. Plus RM has managed to split the functions, i am told delivery has already completed their savings. when we had a local strike down here a few years ago , deliveries did not support us , so as you can see its not a case of whats happening today- but its been years and years of chipping away by RM management that has brought us to the situation we have today.

[dvbuk55]

I sit and wait in anticipation.

I think that there is probably more at stake than Londons position in the bigger picture and I think that the drip drip of agreement will undermine any strongholds sooner rather than later and that in the end will be the death knell because HQ will, despite opposition from members, fall in line with RM because in truth they have no other choice. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will understand the logic of that.

So are you saying dvbuk that all your criticism of HQ is wrong, because according to you they are following the only choice open to them

Not at all, they are in that position because of weak leadership, poor decisions and poor negotiating - they've backed us into the position we are in whereby individual areas are taking it upon themselves to fight the fight.

[k979aaa]

RM have been very clever over time in changing the make up of the workforce. in our office on the late shift we have many foreign students , young people and part-time women. i have spoken to many of them and in the case of the foreign students one of the conditions of their visa agreement is that they are not allowed to take part in any strike action. the youngsters only see the job as temporary and for the women it tops up the family income. i spoke to my Rep yesterday about why he is in talks with RM over savings etc. he told me this has been going on for several years now, making savings in the office, it is not a new thing.RM are picking us off one by one and when the local rep calls a meeting to discuss what we should do about it , apart from the fact that barely no-one turns up, he cannot get a mandate from the members to fight it. he would love to tell the manager to shove his cutbacks up his arse but the members are not telling him to do that. i agree with Dingo who i think said that the Union HQ has concentrated more on the political side rather than the industrial side and i believe RM is purposely driving in as many cuts as possible [ where they can get away with it ] whilst every ones eyes are on the Part Privatisation debate. Plus RM has managed to split the functions, i am told delivery has already completed their savings. when we had a local strike down here a few years ago , deliveries did not support us , so as you can see its not a case of whats happening today- but its been years and years of chipping away by RM management that has brought us to the situation we have today.

Yes you are right "borders" i think royalmail treat it like a game of chess they make their move yet while the CWU blunder and flounder they take another move and they still have no idea why we are in the position we are in CHECKMATE.

[Martin Walsh]

Sometimes I think we do ourselves and the CWU a great dis service. If you read some posters on here you would believe that Royal Mail got everything they wanted from the last dispute well thats not true.

Lets list some of what they wanted to introduce before the Pay and Mod dispute this is a direct lift from their proposal to the CWU which led to the dispute ,

Introduce team working covering sick leave annual leave and special leave without any cost.

removal of seniority

Two hours duty extension for delivery, processing, and distrubtion including starting 2 hours before an indivudals shift.

removal of door to door payments and increasing the number of items delivered.

monthly pay introduced for all staff from april 2007.

removal of all early start payments introducing later starts and later saturdays

Staff could be moved to any office at any time.

MTSF withdrawn

I could go on. But the facts are because this union stuck together we defeated Royal Mail`s plans. Thats why senior managers are openly stating to the CWU Nationally and to the Government that the CWU have not introduce the full terms of Pay and Mod.and cant be trusted.

Yes we saw some change but it was certainly on the margins and we now have significant numbers on 4 day weeks. Some have argued that Pay and Mod has helped increase part timers but part timers have been in some areas and offices for years whilst in some their are none.

This union has always been about the strong protecting the weak. this has happened in almost every major dispute since I joined the CWU. Look at the introduction of SDD there were offices who broke the union line and introuduced SDD and took the money. However in the end the strong through unofficial action got the agreement which benifited everyone.

So whilst I realise this site allows some to let some steam off , please understand that a lot of members dont see pay and mod the way some protray and certainly Royal Mail`s senior management dont and thats why all of their orginal negoatiators McCarthy , kevin Green have all left the industry under durbious reasons.

[k979aaa]

Sometimes I think we do ourselves and the CWU a great dis service. If you read some posters on here you would believe that Royal Mail got everything they wanted from the last dispute well thats not true.

Lets list some of what they wanted to introduce before the Pay and Mod dispute this is a direct lift from their proposal to the CWU which led to the dispute ,

Introduce team working covering sick leave annual leave and special leave without any cost.

removal of seniority

Two hours duty extension for delivery, processing, and distrubtion including starting 2 hours before an indivudals shift.

removal of door to door payments and increasing the number of items delivered.

monthly pay introduced for all staff from april 2007.

removal of all early start payments introducing later starts and later saturdays

Staff could be moved to any office at any time.

MTSF withdrawn

I could go on. But the facts are because this union stuck together we defeated Royal Mail`s plans. Thats why senior managers are openly stating to the CWU Nationally and to the Government that the CWU have not introduce the full terms of Pay and Mod.and cant be trusted.

Yes we saw some change but it was certainly on the margins and we now have significant numbers on 4 day weeks. Some have argued that Pay and Mod has helped increase part timers but part timers have been in some areas and offices for years whilst in some their are none.

This union has always been about the strong protecting the weak. this has happened in almost every major dispute since I joined the CWU. Look at the introduction of SDD there were offices who broke the union line and introuduced SDD and took the money. However in the end the strong through unofficial action got the agreement which benifited everyone.

So whilst I realise this site allows some to let some steam off , please understand that a lot of members dont see pay and mod the way some protray and certainly Royal Mail`s senior management dont and thats why all of their orginal negoatiators McCarthy , kevin Green have all left the industry under durbious reasons.

While i agree on some point's you make they are very valid points the agreement is being eroded by tactical maneuvers which in time will come too even the toughest of Branch's and divisions and no man is an island nor a fortress!. I said this agreement would break the CUW and OUR UNION into a thousand pieces at the time of the ballot of oct 2007!. We are at the front while you are not at the moment it is in the interests of you and your branch and your division and may i add union HQ or the battle is all but lossed and forlorn for all concerned too back the one's who are being slaughtered fighting the might of royalmail at this time!.

[brothermagrew]

The term 'forelorn hope' springs to mind.

[andy2007]

The term 'forelorn hope' springs to mind.

It doesn't have to be that way though.

Many people were demoralised by the last few months of the Strike, because HQ kept falling for RM tricks. Which allowed them to minimise the effects. It was seen by many (including myself), as undermining our efforts to fight the errosion of our service, T&Cs, and the credibility of the CWU.

But that doesn't mean that we as a Union, didn't achieve a lot. Because as Dingo pointed out: We did. We just have to find an efective way, to fight the systematic attacks by RM.

[Edward Hunter]

As someone who works in a London DO, im waiting for the moment RM calls our bluff and imposes EA somewhere, because most peoples circumstances at the moment mean that going 0n strike is the last thing they need. Personally i have never not backed a call for IA, but as a branch i think we are weaker than ever to respond to the call. At christmas we had a call to "do the job properly" and decline overtime because for the first time ever we did not get any hours across the board.That very morning, after our meeting, we had someone go into the managers office and tell him that he would work as many nights as the manager required! Even though the same person sat through the union meeting and didnt object to the proposals at all. "Unity is strength" is not a phrase in some peoples vocabulary these days.

[dvbuk55]

As someone who works in a London DO, im waiting for the moment RM calls our bluff and imposes EA somewhere, because most peoples circumstances at the moment mean that going 0n strike is the last thing they need. Personally i have never not backed a call for IA, but as a branch i think we are weaker than ever to respond to the call. At christmas we had a call to "do the job properly" and decline overtime because for the first time ever we did not get any hours across the board.That very morning, after our meeting, we had someone go into the managers office and tell him that he would work as many nights as the manager required! Even though the same person sat through the union meeting and didnt object to the proposals at all. "Unity is strength" is not a phrase in some peoples vocabulary these days.

I've seen similar in the past and would no doubt see it again. You make a valid point about how people talk big but when it comes to the crunch personal circumstances override solidarity every time. It may be that someones wife, son/daughter has been made redundant and so the disposable income of the household changes, then so does the priorities.

[Martin Walsh]

Edward Hunter I fully understand that there is never a right time to go on strike and some offices are stronger then others.

However your opinion is not the overall view when I have been holding meetings over the last two weeks with members I have done over 20 offices thus far and intend to do many more so far I have met the members in W1, WC, EC, W10 ,W12, W14 , W8 , W11 , N18 , SE18 , E1 , E2 , E3 , E5 , E8 , E9 , E10 , E13 , E14 , E16. We have met with all the differnt London Branch committee members including all the unit reps.

We have asked all our Branch`s to colour code all their units Red for those who we need to do a bit of work to persuade including meetings from Divisonal reps , Orange or Amber for those units who Branch`s need to work on and hold regualr meetings and those offices which are green and are strong and only need Divisional comms and local unit meetings.

All our branch`s have a program of meeting in all offices including going around the clock in mail centres. In addittion we have mail shots to members home addressess and more comms ready to go out.

This dispute is about fighting for a full time job and a future with better conditions. Remember what Romec did to cleaners they downscaled Jobs as part time in some offices and said if you wanted to contiue working full time you had to move offices or accept a buy down of hours. More concerning as we have the worst employment laws of any EU state Royal Mail can legally give you 90 days notice to reduce your hours.

Royal Mail have already stated as a miniumn they want a 70 / 30 split on full time and part time jobs. This will only be the start.

Be in no doubt the reps in London are not bluffing this is it . We either stand together or we get destroyed apart. if you can live on reduced hours payments then fair enough but the majority can not and want to defend their jobs.

We know in London generally the terms and conditons we enjoy have been won by standing together. All our members need is to know the issues hence this comm and members meetings which are taking place all over london.

Most of London got block hour deals last christmas so I think I know the area you come from. If you want to PM I will come and meet with the members in your unit to explain why we have to stick together and make a stand and fight for our jobs and terms and conditions.