No English, no stamp: Update: He's been sacked

[Tman]

I thought we were looking for examples of immigration enriching our culture.

Religion and Eastern philosophy were here long before the late 1940s, so it's a bit rich to attribute those to immigration.

So, any more examples of the culture of immigrants enriching "our" culture?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I thought we were looking for examples of immigration enriching our culture.

Religion and Eastern philosophy were here long before the late 1940s, so it's a bit rich to attribute those to immigration.

So, any more examples of the culture of immigrants enriching "our" culture?

Arguably from the "Beaker People" of the Neolithic era to modern day Britain most races that are currently indigenous, came from overseas so despite your self imposed limit on the date most of us can, if we wish ignore it. The culture of the British Isles is one of thousands of years of immigration, migration, wars and ultimately integration which in my opinion has enriched our culture. Perhaps that is the elusive definition of being British - Learning to accept and appreciate the difference between us.

[Tman]

So (intentionally?) the parameters has been opened up so far that the original point is lost?

And when the odious BNP march and chant about "Immigrants go home" and all that pernicious crap, you feel they're referring to the Beaker People? Jutes? Angles? Or maybe the Huguenots
To use one of your own little sayings "FFS".....

[TrueBlueTerrier]

And when the odious BNP march and chant about "Immigrants go home" and all that pernicious crap, you feel they're referring to the Beaker People? Jutes? Angles? Or maybe the Huguenots

No its meant to point out the idiocy of their views or at least my opinion of them. We are when it comes down to it all descendants of immigrants and to promote an artificial time when we became officially British is pointless at best.

[Tman]

Way off the original point, which was, how have immigrants "enriched our culture"?
Politicians like this little cliche, especially at election time in areas of ethnic minorities, but does it have any truth?
Up to now, no-one has come up with anything.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The whole thread has gone off topic so not sure we can keep it on the original topic. Anyway does it matter if its gone from your original question as with most good discussions its organic and goes off at strange tangents. The question was asked how have other cultures enriched our own, I answered as best as I could with I thought salient points. You chose to dismiss them based on an arbitrary date this is also the basis of a good discussion - the polite and frank exchange of views and opinions lets hope we can continue doing so.

[andy2007]

Way off the original point, which was, how have immigrants "enriched our culture"?
Politicians like this little cliche, especially at election time in areas of ethnic minorities, but does it have any truth?
Up to now, no-one has come up with anything.

Ok, let me explain it to you one last time. Immigrants have enriched British Culture, since it was originally formed. So unless you're suggesting that around the time of the Second World War, British Culture was destroyed, and replaced with something else. We're not going off topic. If British Culture was replaced in the early 20th Century, then please, explain to me what our new Culture is. Because as far as I'm aware, this is still Britain, we're living in now.

When the BNP go on about Immigrants going Home. They're referring to those who look or speak differently. What they're failing to realise, is that they too, are Immigrants. WE ALL ARE! I challenge ANYONE on here, to provide evidence that they don't have at least ONE Ancester, who was an Immigrant.....

Can't do it can you.

[Tman]

Ok, let me explain it to you one last time. , since it was originally formed. So unless you're suggesting that around the time of the Second World War, British Culture was destroyed, and replaced with something else. We're not going off topic. If British Culture was replaced in the early 20th Century, then please, explain to me what our new Culture is. Because as far as I'm aware, this is still Britain, we're living in now.

OK, "let me explain it you one last time" Andy. [See, I can do "patronising too ]

When the Great and Good (and the not-so-good!) refer to "Immigrants", "Immigration" or the "Immigration Issue" or any problems etc surrounding "Immigration", they are talking about roughly since the late 1940s when so-called Mass Immigration began. That's what's generally understood to be the area under debate.

To point out that 200 Dutch Jews may have come in the 1500s, or 250 German silversmiths in the late 19th century, or various and many other races have settled here and assimilated, really is utterly irrelevant.



Immigrants have enriched British Culture

So you keep saying, and I'm asking you to give examples. Can't be that hard, surely?

[Tman]

{Sigh}

You're not getting it Links, are you?
We've done that bit. Read it again.

[Thorby Bislam]

How about language ? Hindi has enriched our language with such words as shampoo, snooker, verandah, pyjamas and polo. And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure a proper search would turn up a lot more.

I realise this doesn't fit into your narrow time-frame, but then, your time-frame is so narrow as to render it meaningless.

[Tman]

"Thorby Bislam"]How about language ? Hindi has enriched our language with such words as shampoo, snooker, verandah, pyjamas and polo. And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure a proper search would turn up a lot more

.

Snooker was invented in India by bored British army officers, and the other words also (allegedly) came back with them, but that's nothing to do with "how immigrants have enriched our culture". Next......

I realise this doesn't fit into your narrow time-frame, but then, your time-frame is so narrow as to render it meaningless

.

Yeah, 60+ years, now that's what you call a "narrow time-frame"....? Read the premise again....

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So because 1 member imposed a time frame and other members have ignored it and continued a good discussion he is right and they are wrong.

[Tman]

So because 1 member imposed a time frame and other members have ignored it and continued a good discussion he is right and they are wrong.

It may be a "good discussion" but it wasn't the rhetorical question I posed continuing on from a point by Andy 2007 re immigrants and immigration. Many replies about the makeup of the British nation going back to prehistoric times none of which had SFA to do with the original point, so yes, TBT old fruit, they most certainly are wrong in thier replies.. ....

That said, I shall take more of an interest in political debating programmes such as Question Time from now on, and look for the inevitable questions re immigration. I wonder if an audience member who pipes up with the "and what about those Huguenots taking all our jobs eh?" or "those Jutes taking over the school curriculum" will be a postie from RMC.. ?

It's worrying that people who need to read English to do thier jobs can have such a poor grasp of comprehension, though.
Maybe the old joke about letters or packets marked "photos, please do not bend" really does mean "bend me in half" to some...?

[Pinky 1]

I hope this idea spreads. Imagine trying to get served in a pub in Sawnsea and the barman refusing until you ask in Welsh. Or, you nip into a grocers in Glasgow and they don't serve you unless you ask in Gaelic.

"Ceiswch eto fy ffrind, os dych chi ddim yn gwybod beth i ofyn am yn Gymraeg wedyn dydwi ddim yn eich gosod chi!
Dych chi wedi darganfod y drws unwaith, nawr darganfwch e eto!"

WOW ! All this debate, and all i wrote was a little Welsh !
Never mind, Old Welsh was here long before English ! ( just thought i'd throw that into the mix ) ......

[andy2007]

ah yes.. depends if the newsagent is franchised lol.. there shouldn't be any difference where he said it really. maybe he just had a pull on that day, hair trigger. now, if it was a white guy who said it, wonder what been the outcome?? probably a few burnt out car shells, torched buildings... 2000 people rioting tut

Agreed, totally unfair that a White middle class types have no say or isn't allowed any, all that pent up frustration will boil up, when British people explodes it would be a big thing, as a Nation we are slow to anger but when we do everybody should beware !, thats why I think he did have a point, I have no shame in being English first and British second and will wave the St Georges cross on April 23rd.
the Politically correct lentil eating lefties so called Communist socialist worker types are the real threat to British cohesion and good order, a definition of a Fanatic IMO is somebody who goes through life with mouth open minds closed, they are castrating British pride for spurious political ideals, they should not be listened to, instead allow common sense to prevail.

the BNP are the other end of the extreme spectrum and are populist parties with no realistic policies.

I liked this song it has just been given to me in a link, strikes a chord with me and just about sums it up, hope you like it even tho you are cymreas !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5h4PFBuzvw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Show of Hands- Roots

All who are born here or immigrate, accepts and adopt British values are British in my eyes, those who reject our values and only seek to have British passport for convenience should be booted out immediately especially those who undermines Britain and act as a fith columnist for terrorists organisations.

Boris Johnson is going to mark St Georges day in a week long festival in London about time too, it will bring Tourist revenue from abroad and the UK, that Ken Livingtone is an arrogant slimy self serving sychophantic hypocrite, the tickets fiasco is the latest thing, he only got in because Londoners wanted to give Blair a bloody nose.

Going to relax this with a pint of Bombadier, Bishops finger and an Old speckled hen with Chicken balti Curry with sweet & sour chicken later on in the week, then a Roast beef dinner with roast Potatos on Sunday, how British is that ?

I too, am proud to be English, and I'm also a British Citizen. But with the possible exception of the Beer, and the Beef (and I'm not even sure about them!). There's nothing British about your plans to relax.

As for those who don't embrace British Culture and Language, being kicked out. If we did that. We'd have to accept all the British ex-pats, back into Britain. And there's a large number of them. I don't know the statistics. But I doubt there are any less of them, than there are Immigrants, who fail to embrace Britain.

Britain has always been an amalgamation of different Cultures, and Countries. Right from the day it became a reality. So what exactly is your problem, with adding more Cultures to the fabric of British Culture?

Well Tman, here's the Post which you were replying to, when you posed your rhetorical question. Note the paragraph in green, where I pointed out that I was referring to the nature, and origins of British Culture.

Again, I pose the same question: What exactly is your problem, with adding more Cultures to the fabric of British Culture?
And please bear in mind that unless there is a major social upheaval, changes to a Culture take many years to take place. It doesn't happen over a few decades, it takes much longer. Always has.

On a more personal level: I'm sorry for being so patronising earlier. I let my frustration get the better of me.