RM Managers giving car drivers petrol money!!

[clagnet]

I use my car but only for my own benefit.Don't get any cash.
Of course the managers encourage it because it saves money on claims and having to have an extra driver.Our driver would have about another 2 hours of bag dropping if no one took their own bags out.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Our driver would have about another 2 hours of bag dropping if no one took their own bags out.

What they would have to put hours back into the office and someone would be paid those 10 hours that Royal Mail are currently getting free of charge.

I understand why people use their own cars as they perceive a benefit for themselves. But as with most things there is also a downside either to you or your colleagues I just ask that those considering using their own cars take everything into account not just the immediate benefit.

Save Today - Pay Tomorrow

[TrueBlueTerrier]

and you think im at lesser risk when i drive the same road later in the day? as ive said if i returned to the DO then i would have to drive right back along the same road i drive in the morning

No its the same risk but the impact of events can be greater.

Accident in your time with no blame on you.

Police Investigation into Fatal RTA
Insurance will cover everything

Accident in work time with no blame placed on you.

Police Investigation
Mail delayed
HSE Investigation as its technically a work place accident just like a LGV/PSV ploughing into a shop. (Sowerby Bridge)
Royal Mail Investigation into security of mail possible.
Royal Mail only covers damage to a 3rd party and business use insurance is a minefield you may find you don't have cover even if you are blameless.
Failure of guaranteed items will cost RM when customer claim compensation and they may attempt to claim back on your insurance.

Of course this is all conjecture on my part and I will probably be wrong but as with most things you have to understand the pitfalls of doing something as well as benefits.

If then you still want to use your car then good luck to you its a free country after all. I looked into it when I started at RM and decided that trying to save 20 - 30 minutes was not worth the extra cost and grief, your decision may be different.

[not me]

i save no duty time as ive said.today i saw guys who had got the van out and were finishing the same time as me.
there would be no point me racing ahead/leaving early as my bags wouldnt be in the pouch boxes
infact a couple of vans were gone before my 'section' were up due to 4 being off sick/annual leave
its not about saving time on delivery but time when i finish

[the beautiful bd south]

Do Royal Mail have a duty of care to make sure that staff have completed there delivery safetly?
How can they be sure that no incident has accoured if staff go straight home after there final letter?
Royal Mail will never insist on a return to the office for all members of staff as they know the first thing that would happen is people would stop using private cars and use the vans.
Therefore creating more driving duties and costing the business money.
People may even stop coming in early and working for free..

I can understand the Union not insisting on a return to work after delivery as it would be a disadvantage for some people but in this day and age of Job security and H&S issues I feel it's about time they looked seriously at this issue.

[not me]

Do Royal Mail have a duty of care to make sure that staff have completed there delivery safetly?
How can they be sure that no incident has accoured if staff go straight home after there final letter?
Royal Mail will never insist on a return to the office for all members of staff as they know the first thing that would happen is people would stop using private cars and use the vans.
Therefore creating more driving duties and costing the business money.
People may even stop coming in early and working for free..

I can understand the Union not insisting on a return to work after delivery as it would be a disadvantage for some people but in this day and age of Job security and H&S issues I feel it's about time they looked seriously at this issue.

well in our office they are trying to push through park n loop(2 in a small van) with all returning to the office
but then theres many factors in the park n loop system to query..........

[johnsouthwales]

just seen local potie using car for round.. hatchback. boot open, sifting through boxes acting as trays. parcels, letters and the like. she be round our street in a couple of hours...lucky its quite around here. id be krapping myself worrying if it hasnt been stolen or attempted break in. i doubt if the drivers insurance will pay out for damaged lock, broken glass or whatever in these instances. a private car is not covered on own insurance unless covered through use for business. bit like russian roulette

[savo]

At my old office, if anyone got their car rear screen smashed in by mail robbers, they were given a £50 B&Q voucher as compensation... ( though i think they have stopped doing that now )

So, you might have had to fork out yourself for a rear screen replacement, and whatever else was busted up, but at least you could buy a quarter of a bathroom suite or something

There was a spate of postie's cars being done over at a nearby office, the theory was that casuals who had worked there previously were behind it, as they knew all the cars and parking places, even if pouches were hidden from view.

[johnsouthwales]

that is an intersting point.. insider information. or could be coincidence and random or common knowledge to would be thieves . what i meant was break ins during rounds. it makes it worse when it happens on depot property.

50quid voucher put towards £300 quid plus damage? pathetic. when an insurance company obtains information and they will find out the circumstances surrounding a break in, they will not pay out at all because the thieves were after the mail, and the mail is work related.

if break ins occur on chance.. maybe they think that all private cars have mail in them when most actually wont have any, and becomes opportunist and random, the insurance will pay out then.

what if body work damaged occured when attemting to break a lock? that means a car will have to go into a garage, paint work. maybe a day or two.. and the postie relies on car to get to work, and if he cant get to work and could end up dismissed all because of an opportunist thief. so, if a parcel or whatever was actually taken from a private car, would that postie be disciplined for not taking reasonable steps to ensure the safety of the mail? exactly!!

[johnsouthwales]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/mar/1 ... honigsbaum

[brothermagrew]

I use my car but only for my own benefit.Don't get any cash.
Of course the managers encourage it because it saves money on claims and having to have an extra driver.Our driver would have about another 2 hours of bag dropping if no one took their own bags out.

Royal Mail have continually insisted that it has a "zero tolerance" approach to anyone failing to comply with private car use rules. Dave Joyce CWU National Health, Safety & Environment Officer's view is that uncontrolled use and Managers "turning a blind-eye" makes that statement a nonsense.

Far too many Royal Mail Managers still pay no heed to what their drivers are doing out on the road whilst on delivery in Private Cars in particular. Royal Mail has a moral and legal responsibility to keep their employees safe by introducing safe driving policies, but also to safeguard the lives of people on roads around them. There is also a strong business case for managing occupational road risk which no company can afford to ignore.

[DGP1]

I use my car but only for my own benefit.Don't get any cash.
Of course the managers encourage it because it saves money on claims and having to have an extra driver.Our driver would have about another 2 hours of bag dropping if no one took their own bags out.

Royal Mail have continually insisted that it has a "zero tolerance" approach to anyone failing to comply with private car use rules. Dave Joyce CWU National Health, Safety & Environment Officer's view is that uncontrolled use and Managers "turning a blind-eye" makes that statement a nonsense.

Far too many Royal Mail Managers still pay no heed to what their drivers are doing out on the road whilst on delivery in Private Cars in particular. Royal Mail has a moral and legal responsibility to keep their employees safe by introducing safe driving policies, but also to safeguard the lives of people on roads around them. There is also a strong business case for managing occupational road risk which no company can afford to ignore.

Until something bad happens and a manager ends up in court on a charge of corporate manslaughter then nothing will happen.

[johnsouthwales]

this practice has been going on longer then,since 1995? no wonder it's been seen as a normal parctice because it has been going on for so long, it becomes the 'norm', and management have been getting away with it for too long, and that is where the source of the problems lay, within royal mail.

nobody likes to use their own vehicle to do 'errands' for a company, whichever company it is. i know i've done it once myself, using my own car to travel from swansea to my home town to fetch a grinder and discs. i felt more comfortable using my car and knew id get there quicker, than driving a 3.5 tonne mercedes van laden with tools.. sod never paid me any extra too... if i remember, it was around 10pm and traffic was quiet anyway, but thats besides the point.

the principle is the same. what the fek would the circumstances be if anything happened?

if royal mail are issuing insurance cover, and at a later stage it is found out that there are any exemptions, then royal mail's only wrong doing is issuing a worthless policy. it is almost impossible for royal mail to be charged with corporate manslaughter, and they well know this. they'd want someone else to be the fall guy..

if anyone is in doubt, take the copy of the driving agreement to your own insurance company.

nobody will ever know where or when an accident or an incident will take place. we all like to reduce the chances of any by reasonable means sure. the traffic volume is greater than it was 20 years ago, but accidents were happening then. accidents happen too when a person least expects it. and even is a victim of an accident when they would not have envisaged an incident.

if royal mail are sending out uninsured drivers, that is aiding and abetting. and puts the public in danger.

by negotiating and accepting a payment, that induces the postie into entering a contract acting as a business on behalf of royalmail, even though the postie is employed by royal mail. it would be best for a driver to add this onto their own policy, but this will have to covered for the whole duration of the drivers policy, and canot be implemented on an 'if an when' basis.

if an employee was returning another emloyee after doing delivery rounds, and the manager asked the driver to pick up so-and-so to return to the m.o or s.o, that driver on their own policy would be acting in a manner of conveying, accepting a 'fare' made by the manager, and basically acting as a 'taxi' service, and if anything should happen to the 'passenger', or to the driver, the insurance company will not pay out, simply because in effect is breaking the insurance agreement and therefore cancelled.

im suprised that this practice has not been highlighted more.. couldn't it have been brought to public attention during the december strike at all as part of conditions?

the roads have more uninsured drivers than ever.. royal mail part of that statistic?

it may seem a bit of a bonus to top up pay. and to induce an emloyee, or to pressurise an employee into carrying out these tasks, is grotesque. it is unacceptable to put someone in "damned if i do, damned if i don't" situation.

[brothermagrew]

"It may seem a bit of a bonus to top up pay. and to induce an emloyee, or to pressurise an employee into carrying out these tasks, is grotesque. it is unacceptable to put someone in "damned if i do, damned if i don't" situation".

Quite Agree.

Darren Cooper, a Postman at Kesgrave DO was forced to use his private car on delivery by his Delivery Office Manager when the DOM wouldn't provide Crew Bus pick up arrangements and told Darren to use his private car in order to save money for Royal Mail. The Delivery Office Manager completely ignored all health and safety requirements, just like at Brentwood. On the 5th May 2006 Darren was involved in an RTA near his first delivery point with his first pouch of mail and 5 extra pouches of mail on board. Darren had to be cut free from the wreckage and sustained broken right patella (wired up), broken left femur (plate put in) left knee shattered (had to be replaced), 2 broken ribs, a broken left wrist and a dislocated left hand. Darren was disabled for life. This wouldn't have happened if there had been no private cars on delivery.

[johnsouthwales]

can these posts and articles be sent to MP's etc?????? then again, MP's dont give a flying duck themselves...worth a try