britains flexible workforce

[k979aaa]

A letter fae the Gruniad this morning


The Guardian, Thursday 19 February 2009 Article historyThe EU directive which will give agency workers in the UK protection against dismissal with minimal notice and no redundancy will be implemented in 2009 - too late to protect the 850 car workers at BMW Cowley (BMW accused of scandalous opportunism after scrapping 850 jobs at Mini factory, 17 February).

Labour and other MEPs working for many years on the need to protect workers in "atypical" forms of employment such as temporary work have warned that the massive increase in new forms of working such as agency work would create a two-tier working situation where some agency workers, particularly in manufacturing, would be doing the same job as their full-time counterparts, often working for many years, but lacking basic entitlements to equal pay, overtime, breaks, holidays, and so on.

It is the case that many agency workers make an active choice to work in this way across the public and private sectors, and often earn relatively good incomes. But with as many as 1.4 million agency workers in the UK, an increasing number are extremely vulnerable during periods of downturn. It is right that MEPs took the long view on how vulnerable this group would become and legislated for basic protections. The UK government will now have to transpose the directive into UK law, most probably in this parliamentary term. The directive will give equal rights in most areas after 12 weeks.

In the run-up to the European elections this year it is important that voters see the dividing lines between legislators who want to build in a social dimension in Europe of basic employment protection in an uncertain globalised economy and those who reject this approach. Flexibility in our economy is important, but so too is the Cowley car worker who left the plant yesterday with one hour's notice and nothing to show for five years of skilled work on the assembly line.
Claude Moraes MEP
Labour, London


it's taken 12 years to get to this,that working folk are entitled to be treated with a modicum of dignity and respect,it will be interesting to see how much is enacted into UK law.

Bugger all if gordon brown and his poodle :mfo have their way!.

[Tman]

If only bmw was upfront they would have offered those agency workers a full time job teaman now in the real world where greed takes presedence over everything those workers were not offered that by an employer who's main concern is profit . However if they hire agency workers they don't have to contribute towards pensions etc so the exploitation goes on but of course you'd condone this wouldn't you ?????

[Sigh]
If you say so, Agent, if you say so...
Clearly I hadn't realised your sphere of insider knowlege stretched as far as the machinations of the BMW firm's hierarchy and it's projected workforce needs.

[Night Tonic]

Duffel coats - lol

[norbert]

A letter fae the Gruniad this morning


The Guardian, Thursday 19 February 2009 Article historyThe EU directive which will give agency workers in the UK protection against dismissal with minimal notice and no redundancy will be implemented in 2009 - too late to protect the 850 car workers at BMW Cowley (BMW accused of scandalous opportunism after scrapping 850 jobs at Mini factory, 17 February).

Labour and other MEPs working for many years on the need to protect workers in "atypical" forms of employment such as temporary work have warned that the massive increase in new forms of working such as agency work would create a two-tier working situation where some agency workers, particularly in manufacturing, would be doing the same job as their full-time counterparts, often working for many years, but lacking basic entitlements to equal pay, overtime, breaks, holidays, and so on.

It is the case that many agency workers make an active choice to work in this way across the public and private sectors, and often earn relatively good incomes. But with as many as 1.4 million agency workers in the UK, an increasing number are extremely vulnerable during periods of downturn. It is right that MEPs took the long view on how vulnerable this group would become and legislated for basic protections. The UK government will now have to transpose the directive into UK law, most probably in this parliamentary term. The directive will give equal rights in most areas after 12 weeks.

In the run-up to the European elections this year it is important that voters see the dividing lines between legislators who want to build in a social dimension in Europe of basic employment protection in an uncertain globalised economy and those who reject this approach. Flexibility in our economy is important, but so too is the Cowley car worker who left the plant yesterday with one hour's notice and nothing to show for five years of skilled work on the assembly line.
Claude Moraes MEP
Labour, London


it's taken 12 years to get to this,that working folk are entitled to be treated with a modicum of dignity and respect,it will be interesting to see how much is enacted into UK law.

Bugger all if gordon brown and his poodle :mfo have their way!.

If I remember rightly , New Labour did everything possible to block that or at least fudge it , it's " interesting " when you look at what gets red lined and what New Labour have been keen to go along with re EEC Directives .

Mixed contradictory messages again , the power of lobbying and cronyism eh ?

[Tman]

five years of skilled work on the assembly line.
Claude Moraes MEP

"Skilled work" screwing those wheels on and laying carpets in....
Obviously the basics of the industrial and social history of the 20th century, and Ford's Dearborn, Michigan assembly plant in particular,have by-passed dear old Claude entirely.

Get off the Brussels gravy train Claude, and see how life is in the real world.
You just might have been of some use to the BMW workers, then.

[andy2007]

five years of skilled work on the assembly line.
Claude Moraes MEP

"Skilled work" screwing those wheels on and laying carpets in....
Obviously the basics of the industrial and social history of the 20th century, and Ford's Dearborn, Michigan assembly plant in particular,have by-passed dear old Claude entirely.

Get off the Brussels gravy train Claude, and see how life is in the real world.
You just might have been of some use to the BMW workers, then.

So you could walk in there tomorrow, and do what he did?
Yeh, right!

Also, I noticed that you thought it was their own fault for staying as Agency Workers for several years. Do you REALLY think that they had any option?
When was the last time that they took on permanent staff?

We have Agency Staff at RM, with a lot more than 5 years experience. Not many, I admit. But there are some. There are many others, who have a couple of years in. But as Mail volumes are allegedly falling (well ok, at the moment they actually ARE. But we're in a recession, and credit crunch, so what do you expect?), they aren't being offered permanant jobs. In fact, we're being offered EVR again. Those that leave, will no doubt be replaced with more Agency Staff.

Do you really need us to spell the reality out for you?

[borders]

well we keep trying Andy but he aint listening

[borders]

Duffel coats - lol

Duffel Coats -------
"For more than a century, warm, windproof and robust duffel coats have been worn by the armed forces in battles on land and sea. Their most famous military wearer was undoubtedly Field Marshal Montgomery, who changed his army greatcoat for a standard issue duffel so that he would appear no different from his men, and to demonstrate his affection for his troops." --- leader of men what do you reckon Mr NT

[Tman]

So you could walk in there tomorrow, and do what he did?
Yeh, right!

I should f****** well hope so, and I would hope that many, if not every postie etc would have enough nous to be the same.
It's unskilled production line assembly work, that's it's nature. What do you think they do then, make those bits and then fit them to the cars?



Also, I noticed that you thought it was their own fault for staying as Agency Workers for several years. Do you REALLY think that they had any option?
When was the last time that they took on permanent staff?
That's not what I meant at all. They were taken on as agency staff; they knew they had little legal standing or protection, but chose to stay there anyway rather than look for other work. Or are you saying they were too thick to realise that they were agency staff, and so could be laid off at any time?

Do you really need us to spell the reality out for you

Yes please.

[Yahoorsur]

Fear of factory shutdown after car production halves


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009 ... lrecession" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wonder where that is?,bloody hell things are getting bad ,I've lived through recessions before,but i cant remember anything like this.

[andy2007]

So you could walk in there tomorrow, and do what he did?
Yeh, right!

I should f****** well hope so, and I would hope that many, if not every postie etc would have enough nous to be the same.
It's unskilled production line assembly work, that's it's nature. What do you think they do then, make those bits and then fit them to the cars?
What I think they do, is assemble their section of the car (brakes, seats, dashboard, whatever). Making sure that they tighten to the correct torque, that moving parts are moving smoothly, once completed. Also, if they are installing something like the lights, or dashboard. They make sure that the electrical connections work correctly. Checking that there are no obvious defects, and reporting any problems.
Why do you think they still use people for some sections of the assembly. Rather than using Robots for the whole thing?
Robots are far cheaper in the long run. But they can't make decisions like people can.


Also, I noticed that you thought it was their own fault for staying as Agency Workers for several years. Do you REALLY think that they had any option?
When was the last time that they took on permanent staff?
That's not what I meant at all. They were taken on as agency staff; they knew they had little legal standing or protection, but chose to stay there anyway rather than look for other work. Or are you saying they were too thick to realise that they were agency staff, and so could be laid off at any time?

Do you really need us to spell the reality out for you

Yes please.

Certainly: A lot of Employers are getting rid of Permanent Staff, and replacing them with Agency Staff. The reason for this?
It's easier, and cheaper to get rid of Agency Staff.

We are seeing this in RM, as well as many other occupations. So where exactly do you expect them to get permanent jobs?
If the permanent jobs aren't available. What do you expect them to do?
Live off Benefits, 'till they can find a permanent job?
Most people have more self respect than that. I'd like to think that if you ever lost your job, you would be willing to do Agency Work, 'till you can get a proper job, too.

[Tman]

That's basically as you said before, but although true, it's not the point I was alluding to.

People know (or should do) that signing on with an agency means you're usually working to fill in gaps or cover at firms in the short-term, or providing labour in industries which are subject to fluctuation in demand, etc. So whether you're there for 5 days or 5 years, you still know that it ain't permanent, so if you want permanent employment you'll have to look elsewhere for it.

That was the deal those agency workers took, and it seems they were happy to do so years in some cases, but then don't whine about the unfairness when the employer lays you off, because that's the "reason" your agency was used in the first place.

It's quite a difficult concept for many RM staff to grasp, but employers generally don't consider they "owe" employees jobs for life any more (if they ever really did) and when cars aren't selling, the staff will be reduced as much as possible, sadly.
It's something many/most RM staff may have never experienced, but no work means no job out in the big wide world.

[borders]

we get that , Andy is just alluding that for many people there is no permanent jobs , its Agency or nothing.nobody owes anybody anything, state the bleedin obvious , but people without jobs means no profit for your capitalist buddies.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

You feel the sympathy flowing can't you . The thing with the car workers is not that they were dismissed but how they were. They had been asking the union and bosses what was happening as late as 24 hours before, the Union said they knew nothing but they had been in talks with management for weeks and subsequently admitted they knew the agency workers were going to be "let go". The bosses had also been asked but said they had no plans. All the agency workers were then told at the end of their shift that they were no longer needed.

Ok they were agency workers and their job security was nil. However, common decency and just plain respect for others means it could have and should have been handled in a better way and given the affected workers more of a chance to make plans.

The fact they were laid off is a fact of life as an agency worker, I know I was one for 6 months at various businesses in my area. But how they were told is despicable. I was usually employed from day to day, but if I was needed for longer they would usually give me 2 or 3 days notice of when I would be let go. Also agency work can be a good way to get permanent employment which is why people stick it out for a long time. I was at one place for 12 weeks as an agency worker until they offered me a full time contract, I was there for another 6 years.

[pocky20]

well i know that some of the works if not all turned down perm jobs at mini coz the temp jobs they had payed better so they did have a choice in the mater sorry for them but i would have took a perm job even if it ment i was geting a bit less money .and also some temp workers .and this is true still get dhss money as they are hard to trace fact.