2009 Pay talks

[dvbuk55]

Forget TNT - they aren't going to enable an E2E system which they would have to do. There are loads of independant leaflet companies - look in your local paper - they cannot do a nationwide posting as we can they are more localised and charge proportionately less.

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know what RM charge - if the price has gone up in the last 10 years how come the payment hasn't?

price list available at http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/cont ... d=36400685" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for that - interesting.

[BELIAL]

Hmm ,worst case = !00% profit margin ,money for old knees ,Mc coca pepsi would kill for that ,and murdoch

[dvbuk55]

No no - there are clearly two seperate issues - bulk mail handling and delivery - no contest - you have an operation that requires a minimal workforce against one that is labour intensive with all the attendant problems.

[marky]

dingo i think your right its time to bite the bullet on d2d,s maybe the membership should do 7 a day 7 days a week.
and while they are weighted to the hilt with all the heavy mail bags and extra weight they will have to carry, to balance themselves why not agree with the local councils and royal mail to stick a brush up there butts so they could clean the streets for lets say 2p a street while doing their rounds.

you are a talking machine dingo whens the last time you had to do a hard days work, maybe it was when you voted for the crap deal along with those 8 others puppets. so im sure you could sell royal mail this one no problem. as for speaking and listening and representing the cwu members, yes while the membership was up for the strike you and the other eight where really listening weren't yous, think not you all where to busy with your tails between your legs giving in to all what royal mail wanted. now look at the mess the offices, mail centers and the membership and the poor reps are in because of it.

as for helping keep full time jobs and all that baloney, how many members and reps have been sacked or IHR since you sold out with the crap deal. go on get up from your wee easy number and find out if its not to strenuous for you.

[marky]

dingo forgot to say you will go far maybe make it as G,S one day.

[tpost]

A union is supposed to represent its membership but elements within our union seem to think that having extra D2D are going to save jobs. Well get your head out of the sand as us on the front line are being georouted and duties with 600-800 houses are being put in. We can't cope with the 3 a week we get now let alone 5 or 6 a week. RM will cut jobs no matter what and say well do your D2D in your own time.The 2007 modernisation pay deal was the worst agreement ever as every change being put in is flexability or modernisation. Its no wonder reps are resigning in droves when frontline members are struggling to cope and they attend meetings and are told lets have more D2D or longer delivery spans
Even my manager has said many older staff will struggle to stay in the job with all the changes, never mind if they leave no doubt thier full time jobs will be replaced.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Marky what make you think Dingo is on the PEC, as indicated in your "other 8" comment. AFAIK he isn't but from what he has posted he is obviously an Area Rep minimum. Just interested how you came to your conclusion.


Also I am sure he will be happy with your vote of confidence in him becoming the GS.

[dvbuk55]

No no - there are clearly two seperate issues - bulk mail handling and delivery - no contest - you have an operation that requires a minimal workforce against one that is labour intensive with all the attendant problems.

And you dont think the employer can dumb it down? Come on now FFS as an employer you can pay 6 quid an hour and NO pension to deliver (and it dont matter what or when!) or 8 quid + pensions and it dont matter what but it does matter when! if your the shark what are you gonna do? TNT have the bulk mail handling to progress forward, it needs a cheap workforce (loads of unemployed and poxy little firms to take over and they are there!) It is in the interests of BOTH RM and the CWU to corner this market and expand it cutting out the competion! Its not that we are getting that much cash at the mo but more to the point we are denying them (TNT ect ect) the proffits to expand! Trouble is neither of them are up to the job and you can bet your life an outsider will be! So sorry brother unless this gets sorted and fast it aint just your pension thats sh*t but your job as well! YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE GLOBAL PICTURE not just the next couple of years in the UK postal market before you pick up your pension and hope for the best, cause already pensions are going over and down and before you know it your gonna be on Social security and wont be able to pay for your heat food water and coming soon health! Maybe life wont be as sweet as some think? Still i do look at life in a child like way! Bloody CSEs. LOL.

You're not telling me YOU have CSEs? Mind you I have one or two qualifications myself - I search the internet for certificates and just copy them

[Geordie]

Quite a lively debate, but it appears most, if not all, have missed the fact that TNT are now the largest deliverer of door to door items in the country.

They bought out Circular Distributors some time ago, and here's some relevant info:-

Who are TNT Post (Doordrop Media) Ltd?
Circular Distributors, the original door drop company, started over 55 years ago delivering free samples of soap powder to millions of households.

In 2001 we were bought by distribution experts, TNT Post. We continue to be the leader in our field, responsible for pioneering much research and development of the door drop medium.

So, why TNT Post for door drops…
The only company to offer the full range of door drop services, including our unique Own Network structure of 8000 distributors and European capability enabling us to deliver over 2 billion samples, leaflets and catalogues each year
Dedicated planning and sophisticated targeting department
Proven and robust methodologies to help measure and analyse your campaigns
Superior service through knowledge, experience and resource
Achieved the highest score across all sectors in the Dow Jones Sustainability Index 2007
A 2008 Business Superbrand, recognised for quality, reliability and distinction


Yes they may have only 8000 staff now, but they deliver more items than us, and their share is increasing. It could give them a foothold in the delivery market in the future.

Yes I beleive we should take on more door to door, but we somehow need to take the membership with us - and its clear from the comments in this thread that it will be hard to do. It's clear the main issues are weight, bag drops and other health and safety issues.

If door to door are put into workload, then there should be a clear statement within any new agreement that should the employer fail to provide the required equipment or measures necessary to perform the extra work; would mean that no one has to perform the extra work.

And thats before we begin to discuss what to do with the current payment.......

One final point to Drb and Dingo - never forget you're on the same side....

[DGP1]

I've never seen a TNT delivery person, the only TNT D2Ds I see are the ones we deliver.

We have a company overhere called LMI who deliver D2Ds but it takes 3/4 to do what I can do on my own but I'm sure they are paid 3/4 less than me.

[tiredwalker]

I've never seen a TNT delivery person, the only TNT D2D deliveries I see are us who delivers all TNTs work.

Once saw a tnt d2d delivery person during the strike period, ironically did not even know where he was, asked me where a street was and i had to tell him he was 4/5 miles away from it. God knows if he had been delivering wrong all day or not.

[dvbuk55]

Yes - this topic has moved well away from the original post of the 2009 pay talks - or non talks as it happens.

D2D should not be a part of the negotiation in the pay round because it only affects some employees, is not pensionable and is not a guaranteed income. The talk of a weekly increment is ludicrous. D2D should be a seperate issue altogether and should only be negotiated by those directly involved - I don't deliver and I am of the opinion that a one off payment for all future D2Ds should only be voted on by those who do deliver and if it was to be voted in - highly unlikely of course - then that payment should be paid only to delivery officers.

The frightening news item of today is a freeze on public service pay - of whom we will be included and that really will be a ball breaker considering the fact that savings are not pulling in the interest that they did and the 1.5% increase of last year.

As for the 8000 employed delivering leaflets - fine - that's about 10 times less than RM and that is with the agreement as it is - should an increase be agreed, which should only be agreed with safeguards in place, then we would be in a stronger position to offer a more complete service. What I wouldn't like to see is someone who is far removed from the shop floor blundering through some half assed agreement.

[Martin Walsh]

Marky I think your find that hard work does exist outside of doing a delivery.

You couldt make it up if you tried some shout do your job properly and stop cutting your own thoarts and jobs, whilst others shout that deliveries are the hardest jobs ever and you cant include any more work or we will collaspe.

If the truth is known neither is true. Someone reasonably asked what makes you think that Door 2 Door will safeguard full time jobs as we work hard enough as its is.

Well when automation is finally deployed in the terms of walk sequencing they want to remain at a 2 pm last letter and strictly re enfoced that and morover they want to run the work in two waves 60 % on wave 4 and 40 % on wave 5 appox 11 oclock.The reason why is that the two waves will mean all work will be automated and more over will mean that staff can start later and there fore they can increase the ammount part time jobs at the expense of full time jobs.

So , how is for some that it makes sense that we reject the introduction of Door to Door into workload and l give more work to TNT.

I feel i am wasting my time as some of you only speak for yourselves and not on behalf of the members within the Branchs which make up the CWU. If you did why the hell have the cwu not seen more opposition to the inclussion of Door 2 Door into work load.

Marky you know I am not on the PEC and I am not one of the eight or one of the majority of the cwu who voted for the Pay and Mod deal, but just say i am a friend of a lot of yours. Also lets remember only a handfull of Branch`s voted against pay and mod.

True blue guess again !! But does it really matter. Rate me how you like it makes no difference to me. On the other hand I will contiue to campaign and lead the members I reprsent to ensure we fight Royal Mail`s savings plan and their slash and burn policy tou our terms and conditions.

The fight is on so how many of you will be at central Hall next tuesday 24th Feb to show your opposition to Royal Mails and the Governments plans for the Post Office ?

[marky]

Marky what make you think Dingo is on the PEC, as indicated in your "other 8" comment. AFAIK he isn't but from what he has posted he is obviously an Area Rep minimum. Just interested how you came to your conclusion.


Also I am sure he will be happy with your vote of confidence in him becoming the GS.

tbt lets just say a little bird told me, he also said he used to be a good friend of dingo's until he became 1 of the 9 who voted for the crap deal that left the membership up sxxt city.
but if the little bird is wrong im sure i could find him a tinfoil coat he could wear.

[marky]

Marky I think your find that hard work does exist outside of doing a delivery.

You couldt make it up if you tried some shout do your job properly and stop cutting your own thoarts and jobs, whilst others shout that deliveries are the hardest jobs ever and you cant include any more work or we will collaspe.

If the truth is known neither is true. Someone reasonably asked what makes you think that Door 2 Door will safeguard full time jobs as we work hard enough as its is.

Well when automation is finally deployed in the terms of walk sequencing they want to remain at a 2 pm last letter and strictly re enfoced that and morover they want to run the work in two waves 60 % on wave 4 and 40 % on wave 5 appox 11 oclock.The reason why is that the two waves will mean all work will be automated and more over will mean that staff can start later and there fore they can increase the ammount part time jobs at the expense of full time jobs.

So , how is for some that it makes sense that we reject the introduction of Door to Door into workload and l give more work to TNT.

I feel i am wasting my time as some of you only speak for yourselves and not on behalf of the members within the Branchs which make up the CWU. If you did why the hell have the cwu not seen more opposition to the inclussion of Door 2 Door into work load.

Marky you know I am not on the PEC and I am not one of the eight or one of the majority of the cwu who voted for the Pay and Mod deal, but just say i am a friend of a lot of yours. Also lets remember only a handfull of Branch`s voted against pay and mod.

True blue guess again !! But does it really matter. Rate me how you like it makes no difference to me. On the other hand I will contiue to campaign and lead the members I reprsent to ensure we fight Royal Mail`s savings plan and their slash and burn policy tou our terms and conditions.

The fight is on so how many of you will be at central Hall next tuesday 24th Feb to show your opposition to Royal Mails and the Governments plans for the Post Office ?

dingo hard work that exists outside delivery must start a new topic and get a debate going.
i would love to attend the meeting at central hall next tuesday or any meetings to support opposition to royal mail on any issue but times are hard now that im out of work thanks to being IHR by rm.
pity the meetings and rally's are always on the mainland i hate missing out on all the fun.