Geo Route

[Geezer]

I dont think the problem is people using cars..hear me out......it's people taking 6/7 bags in their cars.

i was under the impression taking your first bag in car to first delivery point was ok....?

My problem being that i would somehow have to get 2 mile back to office (as DIM says its not his resposibility to pick me up) to pick my car up and end of shift or, get bus from walk and leave car at office.

by taking my car it gives me 15 mins to go to shop for any provisions and still plenty of time to get to delivery for scheduled first letter then at the end of the shift i'm home well within my 15mins conveyence....

Sorry Mate but if you didn't use your car they would have to give you the time to get to start and get back.Also what about when others have to cover your round and don't have a car or as should be wont use a car,If they haven't got the time i hope they break off,without the manager giving them grief.As i see it anyone using a car is just destroying the job for totally selfish reasons.No Disrespect ment to you personally but that's just how i see it.

[floydy]

Geezer no offence taken mate, but i need to get a few things straight

1 I only ever take my first bag same as if i was on a bike or being driven out in a van

2 car takes me to first delivery point and stays there until im finished

3 i get 15 minutes to get to first del point regardless of transport method, so if i get there early i'll sit and have a ciggy till my start time(call me stubborn)

4 my last letter goes in when my duty hours dictate,i make sure of this,then i get 15 mins to get home i am not getting home early

5 the lad who covers doesnt use a car he gets dropped off, runs like fook,doesnt weigh bags makes me look like im taking the piss when im just doing delivery properly

[axeman]

Whilst the guy who's due to take you out gets an extra street or so because he's not taking you out so the dim dum latches on to this and siezes the oportunity to do save money.......... just another side to the argument

[Stormproof]

What worrys me is all these offices that are geo routeing I was in one today,a Mail Centre/Delivery office talking to posties about it and it was pointed out to me that they are having another geo route revision done very soon It seems that only London is sticking to our unions National policy and may end up on the cobbles as Royal Mail try to force it in by E/A as we will be the only division left not to have georoute.I just hope its not to late and a national agreement is reached A.S.A.P.

They finished one of the areas(one of the lighter parts) today JP, apparently its come out as needing 7 p/t duties put in, I also over heard that timed bags have'nt been included Should be interesting when they complete the other p/code areas as at least 1 area is extremely heavy.

[floydy]

no ones supposed to take me out, Im supposed to cycle out thats my point, it would take me 15 to 20 min to cycle back to the office ten minute drive home, yet in car i can be home in 10-15 min, no one having done any extra work and myself cutting off on my time every day...RM can't have it all ways, how i get home is my business and until theres an agreement otherwise i'll keep doing it.


you can still use your car and do the job properly, i know cos im doing it!!!


although i see every day lads taking 6/7 bags for the sake of saving 20/30 min and yeh it pees me off...but even after pegasus some lads will still do it im sure.

[Big Daz]

All urban deliveries apart from the high st/market in my D.O are cycle jobs and we cycle to and from delivery.

The furthest urban delivery point is 15 mins away and the nearest 1 minute away.

[Martin Walsh]

Big Daz a question and its not a dig why is your office continiuig to introduce a pegasus revison when the National Policy is to not agree any.

I can understand members agreeing prior to the national policy to allow a pegasus revison but if the final proposals have not yet been agreed and has yet to go to the members then your area should adhere to the national policy of no more savings or geo route revisons.

Every office which introudces a revision either based on savings or geo route just means that it becomes harder to achieve a national agreement on the long term future delivery model.

In fact a current territtoral manager who will soon be head of regions under Royal Mail`s new structure wrote to the cwu stating there is no need for a national agreement as pegasus is being used extensively around the country without one.

The simple fact is every revison which is allowed to go in weakens the CWUs ability to achieve a national agreement on the future delivery model including the protection of full time jobs. In addition it defies the national policy .

The fact is we can all do a deal locally which suits us but the question is can we do a deal which saves us locally ? The answer is no it can only be done nationally and for that deal to take place the cwu must create the right enviorment to force Royal Mail into an agreement and that must mean no more revisons and no more savings.

Headquaters are often criticised for a lack of direction and leadership some of which is correct but when they get things right like the policy of no futher savings then its down to Branchs and areas to carry it out. Its not in my view correct to say well we already started pegasus so we will finsih thats not keeping with the policy and it is in my opinion a kop out.

Like i say its not a dig but a frustration because we are playing for high stakes Royal Mail do not want an agreement on the future delievery model which is based on a 5 phase strategy which will lead to a job designed for pedomiately for 20 hour contracts and fitting full timers around it. In simple terms its the TNT Dutch model and surprise the first phase of this programme is peagsus from whcih you are on a treadmill to phase 5.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Dingo - I try to support the Union in most things but I am at a loss as you say it was national policy to not agree to Peagsus being implemented. Is this a recent decision or is it an old one.

Unfortunately my branch agreed to it up to 2 years ago even though my particular office was up in arms about it when a Branch Official advised us to accept it as they could make it work for us. At least that's how my memory serves me. Apparently the reason was, and again I may be wrong, that another smaller office within the same branch had accepted it and as a branch they could not be both supporting it and fighting it at the same time. We then suffered a cull of nearly 10% of the walks of which 50% have subsequently been put back in.

[saga]

The message from headquarters is that no office is to agree to any savings for 2009/2010. This is national.

[Geezer]

Big Daz a question and its not a dig why is your office continiuig to introduce a pegasus revison when the National Policy is to not agree any.

I can understand members agreeing prior to the national policy to allow a pegasus revison but if the final proposals have not yet been agreed and has yet to go to the members then your area should adhere to the national policy of no more savings or geo route revisons.

Every office which introudces a revision either based on savings or geo route just means that it becomes harder to achieve a national agreement on the long term future delivery model.

In fact a current territtoral manager who will soon be head of regions under Royal Mail`s new structure wrote to the cwu stating there is no need for a national agreement as pegasus is being used extensively around the country without one.

The simple fact is every revison which is allowed to go in weakens the CWUs ability to achieve a national agreement on the future delivery model including the protection of full time jobs. In addition it defies the national policy .

The fact is we can all do a deal locally which suits us but the question is can we do a deal which saves us locally ? The answer is no it can only be done nationally and for that deal to take place the cwu must create the right enviorment to force Royal Mail into an agreement and that must mean no more revisons and no more savings.

Headquaters are often criticised for a lack of direction and leadership some of which is correct but when they get things right like the policy of no futher savings then its down to Branchs and areas to carry it out. Its not in my view correct to say well we already started pegasus so we will finsih thats not keeping with the policy and it is in my opinion a kop out.

Like i say its not a dig but a frustration because we are playing for high stakes Royal Mail do not want an agreement on the future delievery model which is based on a 5 phase strategy which will lead to a job designed for pedomiately for 20 hour contracts and fitting full timers around it. In simple terms its the TNT Dutch model and surprise the first phase of this programme is peagsus from whcih you are on a treadmill to phase 5.

Dingo
I agree we should be following the CWU directives of no savings and no revisions until there is a National Agreement,but what you fail to answer is how we stop it happening in offices locally.In my Area we have offices that have gone to stage 3 Disagreement and RM have just gone ahead and implemented changes with Executive Action.The local Reps and the Area Branch seem powerless to stop it.If we want a National Agreement then we need to support Areas where the Membership and the CWU are just being pushed to one side while RM implement any and every change they see fit.It is no good HQ saying to Members Don't do this and Don't Agree to That, if they have no strategy to stop RM forcing them on us anyway.This needs to be sorted and sorted soon,because otherwise Area by Area RM will go ahead and Office by Office we will all fall,with no hope of turning the clock back,and getting back what we will undoubtedly lose for ever.

[Stormproof]

What worrys me is all these offices that are geo routeing I was in one today,a Mail Centre/Delivery office talking to posties about it and it was pointed out to me that they are having another geo route revision done very soon It seems that only London is sticking to our unions National policy and may end up on the cobbles as Royal Mail try to force it in by E/A as we will be the only division left not to have georoute.I just hope its not to late and a national agreement is reached A.S.A.P.

They finished one of the areas(one of the lighter parts) today JP, apparently its come out as needing 7 p/t duties put in, I also over heard that timed bags have'nt been included Should be interesting when they complete the other p/code areas as at least 1 area is extremely heavy.

It appears I had got my wires crossed, they are turning 7 full time duties into part time ones I don't know what the feck is going on at my office , they want to make these duties p/time but not offering EVR/buy down etc not that anyone would take buy down anyway. There is doubt of a re-sign aswell, so what are the current duty holders expected to do?

[Martin Walsh]

True blue the fact is that the union carried two different motions not to co - orperate with peagsus. In fact as far back as 2001 under the fit to deliver revions the unions policy carried at annual conference back in the early 2000s was not to accept any peagsus revisons.

When Dave Ward was the Outdoor secretary during TDS he set up a number of working group including one on peagsus and revison methods which I was part of. Our conclusion was that the planning methods which made up the geo route /peagsus was flawed . In additon the types of drewellings which now exist including the so called in streets in the sky.

The union then said we should have no further corperation with peagsus.

However over the last 3 years some areas have been tempted into peagsus revisons believing that they could outsmart the computer package. To be fair some offices intailly gained mainly in the North East as they tradationally have the least cost per item then anywhere in the country. This attracted more offices into peagsus revisons and I have to say that Headquaters have not been strong enough in stopping offices going forward. But I also blame branch`s because they knew the conference policies and its easy to say no.

I accept there is a world of difference between agreeing peagsus and going through the framework and having executive action taken against an office. At some stage then there has to be a national ballot if Royal Mail contiue to take executive action and refuse to talk nationally to the cwu regarding a long term delivery agreement.

In the interim where an office has had executive action taken against them then they should be balloted for industrial action and then the Branch should be balloted to support them and then possibly the divsion. Thats the policy we have carried in my divison. Needlesss to say that at present Royal Mail havnt taken executive action anywhere in our divison.

[Geezer]

True blue the fact is that the union carried two different motions not to co - orperate with peagsus. In fact as far back as 2001 under the fit to deliver revions the unions policy carried at annual conference back in the early 2000s was not to accept any peagsus revisons.

When Dave Ward was the Outdoor secretary during TDS he set up a number of working group including one on peagsus and revison methods which I was part of. Our conclusion was that the planning methods which made up the geo route /peagsus was flawed . In additon the types of drewellings which now exist including the so called in streets in the sky.

The union then said we should have no further corperation with peagsus.

However over the last 3 years some areas have been tempted into peagsus revisons believing that they could outsmart the computer package. To be fair some offices intailly gained mainly in the North East as they tradationally have the least cost per item then anywhere in the country. This attracted more offices into peagsus revisons and I have to say that Headquaters have not been strong enough in stopping offices going forward. But I also blame branch`s because they knew the conference policies and its easy to say no.

I accept there is a world of difference between agreeing peagsus and going through the framework and having executive action taken against an office. At some stage then there has to be a national ballot if Royal Mail contiue to take executive action and refuse to talk nationally to the cwu regarding a long term delivery agreement.

In the interim where an office has had executive action taken against them then they should be balloted for industrial action and then the Branch should be balloted to support them and then possibly the divsion. Thats the policy we have carried in my divison. Needlesss to say that at present Royal Mail havnt taken executive action anywhere in our divison.

Lets hope that happens in my area then because at the moment RM are really going for the jugular,office by office and bringing in change.

[johnnyp]

What worrys me is all these offices that are geo routeing I was in one today,a Mail Centre/Delivery office talking to posties about it and it was pointed out to me that they are having another geo route revision done very soon It seems that only London is sticking to our unions National policy and may end up on the cobbles as Royal Mail try to force it in by E/A as we will be the only division left not to have georoute.I just hope its not to late and a national agreement is reached A.S.A.P.

They finished one of the areas(one of the lighter parts) today JP, apparently its come out as needing 7 p/t duties put in, I also over heard that timed bags have'nt been included Should be interesting when they complete the other p/code areas as at least 1 area is extremely heavy.

It appears I had got my wires crossed, they are turning 7 full time duties into part time ones I don't know what the feck is going on at my office , they want to make these duties p/time but not offering EVR/buy down etc not that anyone would take buy down anyway. There is doubt of a re-sign aswell, so what are the current duty holders expected to do?

I thought it was to good to be true K66yla,there are not many offices that have had duties put in by using geo route and from what ive read on here it makes a right mess of walks it does produce.Ive said it before its just a tool to strip offices of jobs and create savings for Royal Mail.Stay well away from it,as Dingo says No one should be using it we need our reps to be strong and stand up to management.