Harrasment procedure

[Lenny honeyball]

Hello to all, Newbie here..

Had a unpleasant altercation with a manager today, and have decided to go down the harrassment route.

I am quite shocked that this procedure includes a investigation by another 'manager' So In essence we have 'managers investigating managers' I was even asked by the guy at the 'Harrassment hotline' If there were any managers I didnt want to investigate this incident!!!.

Managers investigating managers, what chance has anyone got?

[DGP1]

I don't know the full detail of what has gone on (and it's best not to post the details on this site) but it's probably best to try the Grievence Procedure first because the penalty is less if you fail.

[Lenny honeyball]

I don't know the full detail of what has gone on (and it's best not to post the details on this site) but it's probably best to try the Grievence Procedure first because the penalty is less if you fail.

Thanks for your response DP.

Whats the difference between Grievance Procedure and the whole harrassment procedure?

Also, What do you mean when you say "the penalty is less" if you fail.

[DGP1]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 36&t=12197

All the details you need to know about are in the downloads section above, as for the penalty for failure, if you take out a B&H claim and they find against you (which is highly likely because it's against a manager) then you could find yourself ending up on the conduct code and the punishment can be up to dismissal.

[Pat Ostman]

if you take out a B&H claim and they find against you (which is highly likely because it's against a manager) then you could find yourself ending up on the conduct code and the punishment can be up to dismissal.

Only at Royal Fail, its laughable :lfo :cfo :mfo

[norbert]

if you take out a B&H claim and they find against you (which is highly likely because it's against a manager) then you could find yourself ending up on the conduct code and the punishment can be up to dismissal.

Only at Royal Fail, its laughable :lfo :cfo :mfo

basically it doesn't matter how vague or obscure the " reasoning " for it is , RM will twist things , on it's head sometimes ; in order to teach people a lesson and wriggle out of something
.
Every thing is purely to impress and to a foregone conclusion - the process is corrupt - full stop - though RM will try to make it " look straight " on paper .

I remember one of :lfo 's lovechildren acting as a " troubleshooter " saying " I don't want to be clogged up with petty grievances " - somebody did put one in against the " collection's strangler " when he was PHG - that argument which was six of one and half a dozen of the other was turned into abusive and threatening behaviour resulting in two years suspended .

The Union put in a appeal - by magic another witness was found - this time it was the office brownnose / nark not a ambitious but mediocre lino . The lad found himself another job as it was patently obvious RM were not making things easy for him .

the kindest thing you can say about RM was the lad had too much time off hence the summary justice and there was a reaction to the Jermaine Lee and the Harlow cases which means RM do not want anybody making trouble for them , especially with bullying second only to the Prison Service and being monitored by the EOC & CRE

[andy2007]

What you need to remember though, is that although they tend to stick together. Once you have exhausted RM's B&H procedure, you can then go to Tribunal. One of my Collegues had to do that a while ago. Unfortunately, I can't say more than that. Because it was a high profile case (at least locally), and when I posted quite vague details about it. I was told to remove it, or risk a B&H charge mayself!!!!! Because it was too easy for people to realise who I was talking about.

But having said that. My Collegue won his case! So it can be done.

Don't give in to B&H. They count on people giving up. They are not untouchable. No-one is!

[DGP1]

What you need to remember though, is that although they tend to stick together. Once you have exhausted RM's B&H procedure, you can then go to Tribunal. One of my Collegues had to do that a while ago. Unfortunately, I can't say more than that. Because it was a high profile case (at least locally), and when I posted quite vague details about it. I was told to remove it, or risk a B&H charge mayself!!!!! Because it was too easy for people to realise who I was talking about.

But having said that. My Collegue won his case! So it can be done.

Don't give in to B&H. They count on people giving up. They are not untouchable. No-one is!

If it's been to Tribunal then the judgement will be available for anyone to read (depending on the date it should even be online just go to you local Tribunal site and look it up).

[andy2007]

That's precisely why I thought it would be ok to tell everyone on here about it, particularly as I didn't use any names. And more than anything else, to show my Collegue how much support there is out there for people in his position. Particularly as he was hit with a charge of "failure to show dignity and respect to the Cage Cards" (The stickers on RSCs)! He decided not to fight that one, as it was a far less serious penalty, to the original one of making a malicious complaint against the Manager.

To be honest, I had hoped that seeing a printout of that Thread, would give him the boost he'd need to fight back. But I can't say I blame him, after all the stress and hassle he'd been through up till then.

[norbert]

That's precisely why I thought it would be ok to tell everyone on here about it, particularly as I didn't use any names. And more than anything else, to show my Collegue how much support there is out there for people in his position. Particularly as he was hit with a charge of "failure to show dignity and respect to the Cage Cards" (The stickers on RSCs)! He decided not to fight that one, as it was a far less serious penalty, to the original one of making a malicious complaint against the Manager.

To be honest, I had hoped that seeing a printout of that Thread, would give him the boost he'd need to fight back. But I can't say I blame him, after all the stress and hassle he'd been through up till then.

that's it , RM had knocked the stuffing out of him and/or ground him down - there has been managers on the other forum that openly admit that you've got to admit guilt to something and take a lesser penalty , you are not allowed to win completely , I very much doubt if it's legal if it was legitimate trade union activity and willful misrepresentation and malicious prosecution are serious offenses ; however RM have always regarded themselves as above the law and with :lfo & :cfo they operate at the legal limit at best with perverse interpretations put on things .

I sympathize as RM will try and drag people to the same RM in wonderland , sick level as some in charge . Everything is done for a reason no matter how perverse and NOBODY is immune .

[Lenny honeyball]

So if you do go to appeal, is the appeal a independent body or a RM appeal?

I am under the impression that initally it is a appeal done through a RM type body, Then you are able to the Unions own appeal procedure??????

[andy2007]

No, once you've exhausted all the internal RM appeals. You can go to an Industrial Tribunal, which is completely independant. Unfortunately, you have to have exhausted all the internal appeals, before you qualify though. So it takes a long time.

RM rarely allow you to go as far as an IT, because if you've got that far, it's usually because they're in the wrong. They don't like to be publically proved wrong. They have been known to settle literally on the day the IT was due to start! But it can be over a year before you actually get that far, as they prefer you to give up, before it gets that far.

[norbert]

No, once you've exhausted all the internal RM appeals. You can go to an Industrial Tribunal, which is completely independant. Unfortunately, you have to have exhausted all the internal appeals, before you qualify though. So it takes a long time.

RM rarely allow you to go as far as an IT, because if you've got that far, it's usually because they're in the wrong. They don't like to be publically proved wrong. They have been known to settle literally on the day the IT was due to start! But it can be over a year before you actually get that far, as they prefer you to give up, before it gets that far.

RM have been known to use their solicitors to make an offer which quell surprise goes up as the IT approaches , " a friend of a friend " can always tip the papers off and if it gets into the local rag ; the Google and Yahoo spiders will find it .

Firstly if RM make an offer 1 . It's effectively a form of verbal and / or subtle bullying 2 . It doesn't clear anybody of apparent " wrongdoing " 3 . that game can backfire with RM & make them very defensive - there was a case in Blackburn where RM hired very high powered and expensive legal people to get them out of the corner they probably insisted on backing themselves into - let's just say things can be a bit like the amoral 90's .

All you need to know on how things work in RM in wonderland - his legal people got in touch with Big Al in his glass tower high up in the London Sky but to no avail
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011392.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HOLDEN V ROYAL MAIL GROUP PLC

That could have been sorted out with a discreet word about keeping his nose out of Muslim business or took him into a office & shouted at him . Best recruiting sergeants for the BNP in Britain - the problem was RM in it's usual permanent panic mode reeling from crisis to crisis , zero tolerance is usually practiced by pen pushing tin - pot jumped up clerks who were probably bullied at school and seeking revenge on the world or some Despot in a Banana Republic

Bristol 3 & Burslem 12 - More underhand machinations - let's just say if a particular manager has apparently had 9 B&H grievance allegations made against him - he is a very unlucky guy - DGS Dave Ward allegedly speaking of a particular manager being a thorn in the CWU's side was purely just a unconnected coincidence - it begs the question - who is the quartermaster - who loads the gun & who fires the bullets ?

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