Courier star letter

[dunposting]

I'm not going to show all the letter so you'll have to read it yourself. But Irvan Flaherty, postman Ipswitch delivery office, writes about smoking in vans. We all know its against the law and so do line managers. he states,
"When I complain I am completely ignored by line managers" (I think he's talking about the smoking here).
What beggers belief is the star letters reply by Con McCarthy, CSA health policy development. he states,
"If someone has been smoking in any of the vehicles, it should be brought to your line managers attention"

Hey Con McCarthy don't you read the problem. His greivence is "When I complain I am completely ignored by line managers" Now then Irvan works in Ipswitch delivery office so it can't be hard to find out all the managers concerned and sack the bloody lot. Lets have the rule against smoking up held and those guilty punished

[tpost]

Basically RM said we hear what you are saying but we will ingnore it anyway.

[saintsnut]

Basically RM said we hear what you are saying but we will ingnore it anyway.

Nothing unusual there then!!!!!

[ar26]

Firstly i must admit I am a smoker, however as mentioned in the story it's not only against Royal mail policy to smoke in a vehicle but it's also against the law. So I don't think it should happen. I think the DOMs though would have to prove who was smoking in the van ie catch them in the act which is probably why Irvin feels they take no notice of it. Smelling the smoke is one thing but actually proving who is responsible is another, yes chances are it's the person who used his van on his day off and should be easy to trace through log books but to take action against that particular individual I think would require either eye witnesses or photographic proof of the deed.

[Keano]

I have known Irvin for 20 years.he smokes 40 a day and loves a wind up.

[brothermagrew]

I'm not going to show all the letter so you'll have to read it yourself. But Irvan Flaherty, postman Ipswitch delivery office, writes about smoking in vans. We all know its against the law and so do line managers. he states,
"When I complain I am completely ignored by line managers" (I think he's talking about the smoking here).
What beggers belief is the star letters reply by Con McCarthy, CSA health policy development. he states,
"If someone has been smoking in any of the vehicles, it should be brought to your line managers attention"

Hey Con McCarthy don't you read the problem. His greivence is "When I complain I am completely ignored by line managers" Now then Irvan works in Ipswitch delivery office so it can't be hard to find out all the managers concerned and sack the bloody lot. Lets have the rule against smoking up held and those guilty punished

As a smoker myself I quite agree with the main gist of your posting. As for my DO area in Scotland the Smoking, Health and Social Care [Scotland] Act 2005 and the Prohibition of Smoking in Certain Premises [Scotland] Regulations 2006 came into effect on Sunday 26th March 2006 at 0600 hours. From 6am on 26th March 2006 (referring to Scottish Delivery Offices and RM Managers) you, your staff, customers and visitors will not be allowed to smoke within your business or organisation's premises, if these are wholly or substantially enclosed. This includes previously-designated 'smoking rooms'.

What is crystal clear is that failure to comply with the law will be a criminal offence. Individuals may be fined a fixed penalty of £50 for smoking in no smoking premises. The manager or person in control of any no-smoking premises could be fined a fixed penalty of £200 for either:

* allowing others to smoke in no-smoking premises
* failing to display warning notices in no-smoking premises

Refusal to pay or failure to pay may result in prosecution and a fine of up to £2,500.

You are required by law to display 'No Smoking' signs in or on any premises affected by the ban, so that they can be seen and read by people in the premises and approaching the premises. They must be obviously displayed and protected from tampering, damage, removal or concealment. The minimum signage requirement for premises is a 'No Smoking' notice which:

* Is at least 230mm by 160mm in size
* States that the premises are no-smoking premises and that it is an offence to smoke there or knowingly smoke there.
* Displays the international 'No Smoking' symbol, at least 85mm in diameter.
* Displays the name of the person to whom a complaint may be made by anyone who observes someone smoking.

It is up to the manager or person in control to decide on the number of notices required to make sure everybody on the premises is made aware that smoking is
not allowed. If you decide that you need more than one 'No Smoking' notice, the additional notices need to:

* States that the premises are no-smoking premises and that it is an offence to smoke there or knowingly to permit smoking there.
* Display the international 'No Smoking' symbol, at least 85mm in diameter.

You are also required by law to display 'No Smoking' signs in or on any vehicles that are affected by the ban in such a way that the signs can be seen and read by persons who are in the vehicle, as well as persons approaching the vehicle in question. The reference to vehicle includes trains, buses, taxes, private hire cars and any vessel boat or hovercraft. There's no legal requirement on the size of these signs but they must still meet certain requirements. Vehicles which one or more persons use for work are listed in Schedule 1 to the Regulations and are therefore classed as 'no-smoking premises'. The minimum signage requirement under the new law for any relevant vehicles is a 'No Smoking' notice which:

* States that the vehicle is no-smoking and that it is an offence to smoke there or knowingly to permit smoking there.
* Displays the international 'No Smoking' symbol.
* Displays the holder of a particular post [i.e. Manager/Line Manager/DOM] to whom a complaint may be made by
anyone who observes someone smoking.



What is also absolutely clear nationwide (Scotland, England, Wales & Northern Ireland) within Royal Mail premises is that the Royal Mail Group will not reimburse any fines incurred by managers or individuals who have fallen foul of the law.

Again where DOMs or Line Managers have received complaints or have been made aware of persons smoking, then these complaints should be logged in a complaints log book. As to the particular individual mentioned in the originating posting he has done what is required to be done he has made an official complaint or complained and duly brought it to the attention of his line manager.


The line manager in return who has received a complaint from the individual, of persons smoking or of having smoked in vans has not fulfilled his or her legal responsibility to their members of staff. As stated when the individual concerned has complained he is completely ignored by line managers.

It is quite possible that the the individual concerned having been completely ignored (by line managers) when making complaints in good faith about other individuals breaking the law. Will have no other alternative than to make an official complaint by letter to his Local Environmental Health Authority (Smoke Control Enforcement Supervisor) fo his or her particular attention and ask of them to look into the matter.

Alternatively the individual concerned could and should have approached his or her local unit CWU health and safety representative first or taken it directly to Area H&S Rep if local not in situ and asked or required of them to address the matter directly with management.


And as has been intimated if the individual concerned smokes himself then I would hope to that he is not breaking the law.

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[apple]

one manager frequently smokes on the landing, think i will take photo and see if i can get him done [he;s a s**t]

[ar26]

Same rules for management as for us, and he should lead by example.

[brothermagrew]

one manager frequently smokes on the landing, think i will take photo and see if i can get him done [he;s a s**t]

Top ho! and as ar26 says it is the same rules for management as for us, and he should as a supposedly responsible person know better and lead by example. You could of course consider forwarding it in for inclusion of the next edition of the Courier asking the pertinent question why are supposed role models namely a RM Manager clearly breaking health and safety law, is it one rule for them and another for us, or alternatively land it on the desk of yours and his local environmental health headquarters (Smoke Control Enforcement Supervisor).

And regardless of him being a s**t, no one is above the law. Never forget Royal Mail often quote that the health and safety and well being of their employees is PARAMOUNT.

[POSTMAN]

Have to say,you do see some wank responses in the letters page,but this one is cringe worthy,perhaps the editor is in dissaray as his footie team is on the verge of relegation from the championship and he's not totally concentrating.

[Lounge Lizard]

If a slight odour of tobacco smoke in a van is the biggest thing that Irvan can find to moan about then things can't be bad at Ipswich delivery office.

[k979aaa]

BUTT this is a serious health and safety issue and their can be no ifs or BUTT'S about it!. The BUTT stop's here :cfo & :lfo

[DGP1]

I don't know how posties can afford cigarettes anymore at over £5.50 for 20 which for a 20 a day habit would cost about £2k
and it's £4.33 straight to the tax man or over £1500 every year (is it any wonder they crack down illegal cigarttes so much).

[norbert]

I don't know how posties can afford cigarettes anymore at over £5.50 for 20 which for a 20 a day habit would cost about £2k
and it's £4.33 straight to the tax man or over £1500 every year (is it any wonder they crack down illegal cigarttes so much).

it was posties selling them or even managers - one " colourful " manager got pulled for it ( He's been quite partial to Jamaican Woodbines too ) - RM had a notice put up that it had to stop

I agree that you have to watch for the dodgy/ counterfeit ones and there is a laundering drugs money element too

[ar26]

I buy the cheapest ( crapiest) ones you can get £4.36 in tesco for 20, ( it's great no one wants to tap a fag off you, ha ha )it is getting too expensive I agree, but the stress you get being a postie now how can you give up ? Gave up last year for 6 weeks but the tablets I was on made me feel depressed or was it my DOM, so started again.