ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!

Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Latest Royal Mail and CWU news.This is an open forum.
johnnyp
Posts: 5239
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 16:00
Gender: Male
Location: SE ENGLAND

Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by johnnyp »

http://www.hellmail.co.uk/postalnews/te ... 0&zoneid=3
01 January 2009 by Sarah Sharpe - © Hellmail.co.uk




There is mounting pressure on government to make a change to the law to put an end to scam mail such as bogus lottery win letters. Marilyn Baldwin who fronts a campaign group called 'Think Jessica' is calling for an end to bogus mail coming into the UK by stopping it further up the chain.

Marilyn set up the 'Think Jessica' website after her mother was conned out of over £50,000 and says that hundreds of postal workers are contacting her, concerned about the amount of scam (criminal mail) that they are obliged in law, to deliver.

"Delivery workers say they sometimes see as many as 100 scam letters a day going to one address alone and can do nothing about it.

"A vulnerable or elderly victim who replies to just one of these scam letters soon find that their details end up on what is known as a 'suckers list' and this information is then sold to other criminals all over the world. It soon escalates.

"Most of the criminal mail that comes from abroad gets into the system through Spring Global mail distribution in the Netherlands whose policy is not to spot check or examine any bulk mail (even though they have a contractual right to do so)." she said.

"Spring Global Mail reps scout for potential clients all over the globe and even though most of the mail has obvious scammers statements plastered all over the envelopes it all gets through their system unchallenged. What a lot of people are not aware of is that Spring Global is a joint venture between T.N.T / Singapore Post & The Royal Mail.

"The bogus mail is flagged up with the R.M crest giving it the appearance of originating from the UK but the pre-addressed envelope inside sends the victims cash to a P.O Box in another country keeping the crime outside of UK law. When we challenged the Royal Mail about the amount of scam mail that is flooding the U.K quite rightly say that “they have a legal obligation to deliver all addressed mail, but they say nothing about their connection with Spring Global and how it is entering the UK in the first place.

In Australia, spot checks are made on all bulk mail and these kind of letters are weeded out but the UK has so far failed to tackle the problem other than warnings put out by 'Help The Aged'. It is thought that billions of pounds are being taken out of the UK economy annually by criminals using scam mail and the problem is getting worse.

Steve Lawson, editor for Hellmail, the postal industry news site said:

"We are failing to protect some of our most vulnerable citizens and scammers are simply expoliting Royal Mail's contractual obligation to deliver all mail. It really is time that Spring Global is brought to book on this otherwise we're facing a situation where a green light is being given to the handling of mail by criminals. Clearly there is much money to be made by these criminals in extrorting money on false pretences, but there is also money to be made in sorting and delivering this mail too and it starts to take on a whole new meaning when Royal Mail actually has an interest in Spring Global. Allowing this to continue is morally wrong.

"These are very vulnerable and often trusting people that fall for these scams and we all have an obligation, both morally and financially, to protect them. 'Think Jessica' is seeing cases where people have even sold their homes to keep up with the scammers demands. Ultimately the cost of supporting people that were once independent falls to the tax payer once they have been robbed of all their savings. It needs a far more proactive approach to stamp this out and should certainly be a priority for consumer groups this year to bring about changes to the Postal Serrvices Act. Hellmail will be actively pushing for change in 2009 and I shall be writing to both Postcomm and Consumer Focus to see what needs to be done to bring these wicked scams to an end." he said.

© Hellmail.co.uk - Postal Industry News
andy2007
Posts: 3971
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 10:16
Gender: Male
Location: Earth

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by andy2007 »

I don't know about you. But until last week, I hadn't even heard of Spring Global. Yet, now it turns out that it's a 7 year old joint venture, between RM, TNT, and Singapore Post. If it's all above board, then why weren't we told about Spring Global?
Oh yes. They didn't want us to find out that RM was scouting for business with these vultures! They know how upset we are, that we're forced to deliver Scam Mailings. And were no doubt afraid of the trouble we might cause about it!

Just look at the crap they have on their Website about Scam Mailings: http://www.springglobalmail.com/uk/en/S ... in_the_UK/

Spring's position regarding 'scam' mailings in the UK Amsterdam, 9 September 2008 – Spring takes very seriously any concerns about the content of mail but as we have no powers to act as a censor, we work closely with the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) and the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) to identify scam mail and, where necessary, cancel contracts – to date we have cancelled 13 contracts.

It is just not possible to identify scam mail even when the mail is sent in transparent wrapping. A recent mailing claimed to be an example of scam mail was subject to legal action brought against the sender by the OFT. The judge ruled that the mailings were not illegal or scams and ordered the OFT to pay all legal costs.

We allow our customers to use Spring's UK address when they have no UK address of their own. This is standard practice for all overseas mail and is provided purely to enable undeliverable or response items to be returned to the sender. It does not mean that the mail originates from this address or that the staff in Spring's UK office are responsible for it.

We do work with the ASA and the OFT to combat the issue of scam mailings and we are the only international mail services provider to have signed an Information Sharing Protocol with the OFT.

Scam mail is a problem that is damaging not just to consumers but everyone involved in our industry. Our future is dependent on a healthy direct mail sector and this is why we constantly review the processes that we have in place to combat the issue.


What to do if you think a mailing you have received is misleading
If you think a mailing you have received is misleading, please address your complaint to:

Consumer Direct
Telephone and online consumer advice service, supported by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT)
Telephone: 08454 040506
Website: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk

Advertising Standards Authority
Oversees the British Codes of Advertising, Sales Promotion and Direct Marketing, and handles most complaints about non-broadcast adverts, including direct mail.
Telephone: 020 7492 2222
Website: http://www.asa.org.uk

Important
Please retain a copy of the mailing, including the envelope in which the mailing was delivered.

Just look at the bit I've cloured red. What Planet are they on?
It's certainly not the same one as us. As we can all spot these things easily, but can't do anything about it, as it's already in the Postal System. So we would risk prosecution for "wilful delay", if we didn't deliver them. But there's no legal reason, why they can't refuse to collect Mail from these Criminal Scum. If it doesn't enter the system, then we don't have to deliver it, do we?
They do say that they have already cancelled 13 contracts. But that's not many, over 7 years. Particularly considering the fact that there have been reports of Posties, having to deliver up to 100 Scam Mailings to a single address. Having said that: It might be worth contacting Spring Global, with details of these Postings. That way, they will have no opportunity to deny knowledge of the type of Mail they're putting into the system. :hmmmm They can be contacted at:
Spring Global Mai
G3 Worldwide Mail (UK) Ltd.
Unit 9, Trident Way
International Trading Estate
Southall,
Middlesex
UB2 5LF
United Kingdom

Email: custserv.glm@springglobalmail.com

I notice that they also include a sob story, about them getting into trouble, for a false accusation. But if they were to join the campaign to have the Law changed, to allow us to intercept, and remove such items from the Post. Like they do in Austrailia. Then they would have legal protection, if they make a mistake. :hmmmm

I strongly reccomend that everyone signs the E-Petition on the No. 10 Website, to have the Law changed: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/think-jessica/

Thanks.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
DGP1
Posts: 15551
Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 20:39
Gender: Male
Location: Terminus

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by DGP1 »

I think most of us on deliveries know which letters are 'scam' mail and the only thing we can do is tell the recipient that we suspect the mail to be a fraud, of course we run the risk of being punished if we're caught doing it.
I'm preparing myself for the zombie invasion, rule number 1 - Cardio
andy2007
Posts: 3971
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 10:16
Gender: Male
Location: Earth

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by andy2007 »

And yet they say that it's not possible to spot them!

Still, that's why I'm suggesting that we actually tell them about the Scam Mailings. That way, they can't claim that they don't know about them. It's just a thought.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
andy2007
Posts: 3971
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 10:16
Gender: Male
Location: Earth

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by andy2007 »

I've just had an update from Marylin. Aparently, the case quoted on the Spring Global Website, is (unsurprisingly) deceptive. They won the case on appeal, and didn't have to pay out 1 penny. See for yourself: http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/2008/86-08

OFT wins landmark Dutch court case
86/08 23 July 2008

In a landmark cross border case a Dutch court has granted the OFT an injunction stopping Best Sales B.V., a mail order company, from sending misleading prize draw mailings to UK consumers.

Best Sales B.V., a Dutch company trading as 'Best Of' and 'Oliveal', sent unsolicited mailings to UK residents offering household goods and health remedies. The OFT believed that the mailings were misleading since they appeared to notify UK consumers of a large prize win, typically £5,900 or £10,000. The OFT also considered that the mailings implied that to receive a large prize, or in order to receive this prize faster, the consumer had to make a purchase from an accompanying catalogue.

The OFT initiated proceedings against Best Sales B.V. in the Commercial Court in Breda in the autumn of 2006, following receipt of consumer complaints. The court ruled in favour of the OFT and granted an injunction on 9 July 2008.

In their ruling, the presiding judges stated: 'It is clear that the content and layout of the mailings at issue have been designed with the intention of convincing the consumer that he will absolutely win the amount on the cheque stated in the mailing' and that the numerous misleading statements made in the mail shots were 'intended to give a false representation of the facts with the intention of persuading the consumer to place an order for the products in the catalogue.'

This is the first court order that the OFT has gained in the Netherlands and only the second ever cross border injunction sought by the OFT. The injunction prevents Best Sales B.V. from continuing to send misleading mailings to UK consumers. Failure to comply with the injunction will result in a 1,000,000 Euro fine for each offending mailing sent. Best Sales B.V. are also required to place an agreed statement in two national UK newspapers apologising for having misled UK consumers.

Mike Haley, OFT Director of Consumer Protection, said:

'The judgment sends a clear message to direct mail publishers across Europe that such misleading prize draw advertising is unacceptable. The case also demonstrates that the OFT will not hesitate to pursue those responsible either directly in the European courts or through our European enforcement partners.'

Consumers who receive unsolicited prize draw mailings and are unsure whether they have won anything should call Consumer Direct for clear, practical consumer advice on 08454 04 05 06, or visit the Consumer Direct website.

NOTES

1. The OFT commenced proceedings in the commercial court in Breda for breaches of the Dutch and/or English implementation of the Misleading Advertising Directive [see note 4]. An interim court hearing was held on 10 October 2006 (see press release 137/06). The court found against the OFT in an interim judgment.

2. A court hearing in relation to the full proceedings was held on 4 December 2007 and the judgment in favour of the OFT made on 9 July 2008. Best Sales B.V. are considering whether to appeal the judgment.

3. Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002 gives effect to the Injunctions Directive in the UK and gives the OFT, other general enforcers and designated enforcers which are public bodies, the power to take action against businesses in other European Union countries that are infringing certain European-based consumer protection legislation, such as legislation implementing the Misleading Advertising Directive. When a business based in another EU country harms the collective interests of UK consumers, the OFT will normally ask the relevant community enforcer to take enforcement action under the Consumer Protection Cooperation Regulation. However, the OFT is able to take action in other EU member states if no community enforcer can act, as was the case in the Netherlands at the time action against Best Sales B.V. was initiated.

4. Under Council Directive 84/450/EEC on Misleading Advertising an advertisement is misleading if it 'in any way, including its presentation, deceives or is likely to deceive the persons to whom it is addressed or whom it reaches and which, by reason of its deceptive nature, is likely to affect their economic behaviour or which, for those reasons, injures or is likely to injure a competitor'.

5. The OFT took its first successful cross-border court case against Duchesne SA, based in Belgium, in 2004 (see press release 208/04).

6. Consumer Direct is a telephone and online consumer advice service funded by government and managed by the Office of Fair Trading. It offers consumers clear, practical and impartial advice and information.

7. Download full details of the Judgment (pdf 116 kb).


Just another example of the deception, we have to deal with, eh? :arrrghhh :evil/mad
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
MILLIE&MO
Posts: 26
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 16:43
Gender: Female

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by MILLIE&MO »

IN A NUT SHELL
Spring global will put any type of mail into the system and inform all there clients including the criminals that they will make no checks and ask no questions

When a criminal is bought to there attention after being tracked down at the expence of the taxpayer,Spring have no choice other than to cancel the contacts.

Once a criminals contact has been cancelled ,the scammer just sets up another scam using a different name and another po box address and goes back to Spring.

The criminal mail then gets an easy and assisted passage into the UK where it is flagged up with the ROYAL MAIL crest . giving it the apperance of origanating from the UK. The pre addressed envelope inside sends the victims cash to another country ouside of our laws.

The British posties are being used as mules to traffic for criminals and the ROYAL MAIL quite rightly say that they have a legal obligation to deliver all mail as addressed.
They are certainly not going to say that it got put into the system in bulk and they are making mega profit from it !!

Are you suprised that the R.M have not advertised there secret company ? They dont want people to know that they are making £millions out of criminal mail and using there posties as mules to traffic for criminals !
Last edited by MILLIE&MO on 02 Jan 2009, 16:09, edited 1 time in total.
oypostie
Posts: 902
Joined: 25 Dec 2007, 13:39

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by oypostie »

Isn't Spring Global the company that Watchdog investigated a few years back. They were certainly Dutch and it highlighted the Royal Mail link
andy2007
Posts: 3971
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 10:16
Gender: Male
Location: Earth

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by andy2007 »

They're based in Amsterdam. Here's their "About Us" page: http://www.springglobalmail.com/uk/en/About_Us/

Spring Global Mail is a world leader in the provision of international mail services to businesses.

We are a joint venture company, formed in 2001 by three of the world’s most dynamic and respected postal organisations: TNT of the Netherlands, Royal Mail of the United Kingdom and Singapore Post.

We employ 1,100 people in 25 countries and our headquarters are located in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

As I said earlier: If it was all above board. Don't you think they would have been boasting about it to us, rather than keeping it a secret?
They're always going on about how the market is shrinking. Yet here's a way of maintaining our profits. But they kept it secret, becaus they knew the reaction they'd get from us, once we learned the truth.

It's one thing, hearing that RM have some dealings with Spring Global. But quite another, to find out that RM are joint founders, and have a major interest in it. We all know that once something is in the Postal System, we have no choice but to deliver it. But RM have the ability to prevent it ever ENTERING the system. But no. They are more interested in the profits! :Sick :evil/mad
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
Stormproof
Posts: 6116
Joined: 07 Jul 2007, 21:03
Gender: Female

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by Stormproof »

I've been talking to a mate who drives for a Dutch logistics firm, he said his firm take about 10 artics a day into Spring Global. He was'nt surprised to hear they are dodgy.
So keep on moving, moving, moving your feet
Keep on shuf-shuf-shuffling to this ghost dance beat
Just keep on walking down never ending streets


Illegitimi non carborundum
MILLIE&MO
Posts: 26
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 16:43
Gender: Female

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by MILLIE&MO »

oops
Last edited by MILLIE&MO on 02 Jan 2009, 15:38, edited 1 time in total.
MILLIE&MO
Posts: 26
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 16:43
Gender: Female

You must watch this on YOUTUBE

Post by MILLIE&MO »

Hi log onto you tube and type in " think jessica scam mail" .. you will see the intervew of the campaign its a real eye opener
Jessicas postman deliverd 30,000 criminal letters over a five year period and every time he tried to inform his seniors that he objected to being used as a mule for criminals ,he was told to stop making a fuss and do his job.
Last edited by MILLIE&MO on 05 Jan 2009, 18:39, edited 2 times in total.
TrueBlueTerrier
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 72597
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 10:29
Gender: Male
Location: On my couch

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AMMxg1k6O ... annel_page here is a link to the above mentioned video.
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
MILLIE&MO
Posts: 26
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 16:43
Gender: Female

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by MILLIE&MO »

Spring Global Mail
Watchdog investigates a mailing service that is sending scam leaflets.
12 December 2006

Spring Global Mail acts as a mailing service handling leaflets and brochures for foreign companies. It sends 500 million every year and the business is worth £85 million.

But millions of these leaflets are scams. And Spring Global Mail lets the scamsters use its London address - Unit 9, Trident Way, Southall. On its website, the company says this means UK residents will be none the wiser about where the companies really come from.

We've exposed many of the scamsters before, but that hasn't stopped Spring Global Mail handling their leaflets.

The company brings the mailings into the UK, but it's the Royal Mail that delivers them to your door. And Royal Mail is a joint owner of Spring Global Mail. It actually makes money from the criminal mail the company sends out.

After she was targeted by scam leaflets, Phyllis Moon, 91, wasted £5,000 on fake lotteries, miracle health cures and bogus psychics. It's taken Moon many years to discover that all the false promises were scams.

Mike Haley from the Office of Fair Trading is frustrated with Spring Global Mail. He thinks it should take more responsibility for the leaflets it distributes. Robert Keitch from the Direct Marketing Association condemns the company for knowingly handling leaflets that defraud innocent members of the public.

We paid a visit to Spring Global Mail's headquarters in Amsterdam to find out what it will and won't send in the post. Armed with a fake mailshot for a ridiculous scam, we posed as a Spanish company hoping to target the UK with a miracle slimming aid - Lose Choco-weight. It's obviously a scam, but Spring Global Mail agreed to send it to the UK regardless.

Although Spring Global Mail advised us to get the leaflet checked with the Advertising Standards Authority, it told us it would send anything we wanted in the post. It wasn't even bothered if it was a scam.

Spring Global Mail say it's responsible for the delivery of the mail, it's not responsible for the content. That's down to the customers who send it. It has a clear policy for dealing with deceptive mailings, and has terminated 13 customer contracts after the authorities ruled the content was unlawful or misleading.

Royal Mail says it has a legal obligation to carry all mail, and it doesn't have any control over its content.
Lounge Lizard
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 9458
Joined: 06 Aug 2007, 21:54

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by Lounge Lizard »

There wouldn't be this problem if the public had the sense to realise that if something seemd too good to be true then it is too good to be true. :shock:
MILLIE&MO
Posts: 26
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 16:43
Gender: Female

Re: Postal Services Act Needs Urgent Revision Says Lawson

Post by MILLIE&MO »

You are right but unfortunatly there are thousands of elderly and vulnerable people whose minds are failing them and if you look at the gallary on thinkjessica.com you will see that these victims are not responding to the scammers out of greed they are being tricked,befriended and threatened by the criminals who are seeking out those whose minds can be abducted.
Without stating the obvious some elderly people get confused and forgetful, many live alone and the exciting mail they recive soon becomes addictive and for many it is at first welcome in there loney lifes.
The bogus claivoyants letters often tell a elderly victim that if they dont send a fee , harm will befall them or there loved ones!
Advice like if its true good to be true is not much good to someone as vulnerable as that
It woul be interesting to hear your comments after you have visited the site though !!