Evening deliveries

[bedfordrl]

Hi,
Need advice ,, soon one of our Rurals will be going to a later start,10.00-1800 with a S.A. collection at the end.
Now what i would like to know is is there a health and safety issue with delivering in the dark?.

Come winter with the darker and rainy evening it could be dark at 15.00-16.00 whilst still on delivery and unlike the old days when we sometimes went out in the dark to start delivery,it will be getting darker and the potential for a slip or fall in the dark will be much greater.
Cheers.

[johnnyp]

Town Deliverys should be completed by 14.00,Rurals by 15.00.This is where the business arguement comes to surface when someone does a belated on docket and are being paid past these times.I suppose there answer could be heres a torch,you choose to do docket get on with it.With your case though its a duty so it should be planned to finish at 15.00 with the collection at the end.No postperson should be delivering in the dark,that should mean both early mornings and late in to the evening imho,the only exception should be collections and packet or parcel deliverys in a van.

[bedfordrl]

Is that laid down in stone?.
I have argued this point and my area C.W.U. rep (i am the office rep) has agreed to this change in duty structure .

As the moment the duty will start at 10.00 and will throw his own round in,so he will probably be ready to go about 12.00-12.30.
If the round is a minimum of 4 hrs long then he will cease delivery at 16.00-16.30 maybe later if the dark or heavy mail slows him down.

There is obviously no way that he will finish at 15.00.

[bogstandard]

Do you have what your area rep has agreed to in writing ?
your area rep has the power to agree nothing, just remember that.
Negotiations take place at a local level, area reps are not local they cover an area.
If this issue has been persued correctly via the IR Framework then you are stage 1. Between yourself and the DOM you will have drawn up a list of things you can and cannot agree on.
if you cannot agree at this stage 1 it is passed up to stage 2 which the area rep becomes involved but, and this is a BIG but, he or she cannot reach agreement without you being present at any and all relevant meetings and, most importantly, you agreeing to the changes. it is not possible to reach agreement and have your issues and that of the DOM's dealt with, without either of you being there, which i'm sure your DOM was.
Finally stage 3 where the divisional rep and area rep negotiate on your behalf. In my experiance you are not entitled to be present but this is not stipulated anywhere i am aware of.
The Pay and Modernisation agreement is quite clear on this though, "negotiations to take place at a local level" so it will, in all probability be passed back to you at local level. Although your issues will need to be addressed should agreement be reached
If your DOM is going with the Area rep then inform your members that the changes have not been agreed locally and that your DOM is acting outside of current agreements.
I feel you could go to disagreement over the agreement between your area rep and whoever it was they reached agreement with on the grounds that neither party has acted in line with either the IR Framework or the Pay and Modernisation agreement specificaly local level negotiations and that one or both parties has knowingly allowed this to happen.
Possibly consider writing to your area rep questiong their actions, then after a week or so write to branch informing them of their actions requesting a meeting with the secretary and the area rep to explain their actions, maybe copy in Bob Gibson's department.

[stokes11eg]

Do you have what your area rep has agreed to in writing ?
your area rep has the power to agree nothing, just remember that.
Negotiations take place at a local level, area reps are not local they cover an area.
If this issue has been persued correctly via the IR Framework then you are stage 1. Between yourself and the DOM you will have drawn up a list of things you can and cannot agree on.
if you cannot agree at this stage 1 it is passed up to stage 2 which the area rep becomes involved but, and this is a BIG but, he or she cannot reach agreement without you being present at any and all relevant meetings and, most importantly, you agreeing to the changes. it is not possible to reach agreement and have your issues and that of the DOM's dealt with, without either of you being there, which i'm sure your DOM was.
Finally stage 3 where the divisional rep and area rep negotiate on your behalf. In my experiance you are not entitled to be present but this is not stipulated anywhere i am aware of.
The Pay and Modernisation agreement is quite clear on this though, "negotiations to take place at a local level" so it will, in all probability be passed back to you at local level. Although your issues will need to be addressed should agreement be reached
If your DOM is going with the Area rep then inform your members that the changes have not been agreed locally and that your DOM is acting outside of current agreements.
I feel you could go to disagreement over the agreement between your area rep and whoever it was they reached agreement with on the grounds that neither party has acted in line with either the IR Framework or the Pay and Modernisation agreement specificaly local level negotiations and that one or both parties has knowingly allowed this to happen.
Possibly consider writing to your area rep questiong their actions, then after a week or so write to branch informing them of their actions requesting a meeting with the secretary and the area rep to explain their actions, maybe copy in Bob Gibson's department.

Seems to me that more and more people are bieng forced to consider individual contracts.
I took this job beacause of the 5 o'clock start, and the one o'clock finish--to expect people to push back start and finish
times by four hours or more, must surely be a breach of their original contracts?
When these bout of 'changes' were originally brought in, the Unions should have said a resounding NO!
Instead, bit by bit they have 'encouraged', everyone to accept change after change all to the detriment of the workers.
How on earth can they preach solidarity when they are encouraging all and sundry to consider varying different start
/finishing times etc-if offices were split before, think what will happen now.

[woofwoof]

under the uso licence last letter for rural is 3.00pm so if it effects the last letter get all the customers on that duty to ring postcomm and ask your manager about the uso agreement and the last letter times your union rep SHOULD KNOW THIS

[bogstandard]

it doesn't appear to impact on the USO and seems to be absorbing an SA to boot.
Not too sure if this is correct so i'm sure i will be put right if i'm wrong.

[ar26]

Hi
I've been working ot recently doing rounds or parts of rounds after my own ( covering sickness etc )which meant I was delivering in the dark. I tried where possible to get all the mail done first so was only doing the larger packets when it was really dark.
It is not fun even under street light and with the old Royal Mail issue torch. If you want to accept the change then insist that managment supply a high power torch, some sort of flashing led light that can be fitted to your bag or jacket and get them to put some flourescent tape on both the sides and back of the van, as red doesn't show up at all well at night.

[bedfordrl]

Good point.

[woofwoof]

it doesn't appear to impact on the USO and seems to be absorbing an SA to boot.
Not too sure if this is correct so i'm sure i will be put right if i'm wrong.

its overtime then u are saying simple answer is dont do it (unless you need the money then good luck to you)

[bogstandard]

it doesn't appear to impact on the USO and seems to be absorbing an SA to boot.
Not too sure if this is correct so i'm sure i will be put right if i'm wrong.

its overtime then u are saying simple answer is dont do it (unless you need the money then good luck to you)

No, i never said don't do it, i said pursue it via the IR framework.
the protocol is as i have explained above, local reps stage 1, area reps stage 2 and div reps stage 3. Each passes it to the next because there are serious issues they cannot agree or let pass with their opposite number in RM.
The issue here is (i'm assuming,) the local rep wasn't involved proir to the area reps inclusion, if my assumtion is correct then the area rep agreed to proposals put forward without even seeking the aproval of the local rep, let alone actually getting it. Which thery are not in a position to do, never mind what they say. If they play the IR framework to the letter, then play the pay and modernisation agreement back at them "negotiations take place at local level"

Looking at the structure put forward i assumed (rightly or wrongly) that this was a F/T duty of 8 hours, i guessed that the s/a was from 1600-1800 and had been absorbed into the duty.