ALL STRIKES CANCELLED EXCEPT BRIDGEWATER

[axeman]

please no !!!!!! just imagine two or more of teaman and nighty that is something i'd not envisaged thinking over the christmas break a nightmare or what

[Night Tonic]

Possibly for you Axeboy. With such well thought out replies I need hardly point out that reasoned thinking or structured comments are devoid in your neck of the woods.

[andy2007]

Years ago posties were ofter ex-servicemen or came in by the cadet route, and either way they knew the system and got on with it.

- Here you are judging on the Character of the individuals which is what I prefer.

Judging more on thier probable suitability for employment and the attitude to the job rather than anything to do with thier "character".

Again you are judging on their characters which if it matches what you said they should be looked down on.

Whether they "should be" or not is of no consequence to me, but if I was ops in an MC I'd be very aggrieved (and to be fair, many seem to moan constantly about those "lazy useless b'stads" all day long in my MC) if I was the same pay and grade as some of these walking dead now employed.

Just because society does one thing does not make it right.

Vey philosophical, I'm sure. Actually I got that bit wrong; when I said "society" I really meant "world". Various Left Wing dreamers have spouted that little concept ("we're all equal") over the years, and then promptly proved that we're all very far from equal by their actions.

He didn't say that everyone is equal. He said that people should be judged on their actions, and not their job. That's a very different concept to Communism.

Why must you rely on selective quoting?
Here's what TBT actually said:
Just because society does one thing does not make it right. 30 years racism was rife in society, 60 years ago Feminism was de-rigeur was that right. As to the second sentence surely judging people on their character rather than their jobs is the best way, otherwise we would all be fawning over Allan Leighton and Adam Crozier or even Gordon Brown because their job is far higher in the current hierarchical system than ours.


So as you can see: Far from saying that "everyone is equal", he's pointing out that by your standards, Leighton and Crozier are the Elite. And someone who is a Postie, but does a great deal for his/her Community, is inferior. But that he (like a lot of us) thinks that you're wrong. Is that such a difficult concept for you?

You're right about Communism being severely flawed. Just look at all the harm it's done over the 20th Century. But here's an example of someone who by your standards, should be considered superior to us, shall we?
Nick Leeson: the rogue trader whose unchecked risk-taking caused the biggest financial scandal of the 20th century. Do you still think that it's the job, and not the person doing it, which is the most important factor in judging someone's worth?

[Tman]

He didn't say that everyone is equal. He said that people should be judged on their actions, and not their job.

Problem there is that this RMC forum is work-based. RM workers by and large, so that's the subject under discussion, and that which gives the common ground. Whether they are "good" people and do "good" actions is irrelevant.

That's a very different concept to Communism.

Indeed so, but then the argument has been changed and extrapolated far beyond that simple comparison.

Why must you rely on selective quoting?
Here's what TBT actually said:
Just because society does one thing does not make it right. 30 years racism was rife in society, 60 years ago Feminism was de-rigeur was that right. As to the second sentence surely judging people on their character rather than their jobs is the best way, otherwise we would all be fawning over Allan Leighton and Adam Crozier or even Gordon Brown because their job is far higher in the current hierarchical system than ours.


So as you can see: Far from saying that "everyone is equal", he's pointing out that by your standards, Leighton and Crozier are the Elite. And someone who is a Postie, but does a great deal for his/her Community, is inferior.

Again, TBT's argument has changed to something it never started as,but then it started as a rant about "You hate posties" and all that old cock and was miles off the point.
Brown, Leighton and whoever else you care to rope in are people and so suffer the same faults and strengths as everyone else, but thier earning power puts them well into the "Elite" as you call it, unless you know others earning several millions a year?
So unless you want to move the argument into some deeply philosophical debate about who is "better", the haves or the have-nots, there's not a lot more to say.

But that he (like a lot of us) thinks that you're wrong. Is that such a difficult concept for you?

Now now Andy, sarcasm doesn't become you. Wouldn't this RMC be rather pointless if we all thought the same? So what if you think I'm wrong? The "majority" on here still believe mail volumes aren't dropping.......

[andy2007]

Sorry Tman. You're right, I shouldn't have stooped to sarcasm. I was just getting frustrated by the insistance of some, that they were in some way superior to us, because they earn more money.

As I said before: There are more important things in life than money. You obviously disagree, and you're just as entitled to that opinion, as I am to mine. All I ask, is that people stop putting us down, because of views like you. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else on this Planet. But just because I don't earn much money. It doesn't mean that I'm inferior.

[BELIAL]

Sorry Tman. You're right, I shouldn't have stooped to sarcasm. I was just getting frustrated by the insistance of some, that they were in some way superior to us, because they earn more money.

As I said before: There are more important things in life than money. You obviously disagree, and you're just as entitled to that opinion, as I am to mine. All I ask, is that people stop putting us down, because of views like you. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else on this Planet. But just because I don't earn much money. It doesn't mean that I'm inferior.

Yeah it's a sad reflection on the society we live in that you gain a lot of power and status with a money clip,:shaped charge ,or rifle under your belt.
Still you get what you wish for

[Tman]

As I said before: There are more important things in life than money. You obviously disagree,

It's always a mistake to assume that people's take on things is how they would like things to be. That said, the statement above is another shift in the argument.
Many things are far more important than money, but on a day-to-day mundane basis (which is "our" world of work) it makes the world go around, and it's what we get out of bed for. Ask yourself how many RM staff would continue to come in if there was no wages forthcoming? The old "but we provide a service" cliche we quickly be forgotten, I'm sure.

All I ask, is that people stop putting us down, because of views like you. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else on this Planet. But just because I don't earn much money. It doesn't mean that I'm inferior.

No, you're right, it doesn't, but remind me again just how that squares with the original point re some current MC staff are well below standard in thier performance?

[BELIAL]

As I said before: There are more important things in life than money. You obviously disagree,

It's always a mistake to assume that people's take on things is how they would like things to be. That said, the statement above is another shift in the argument.
Many things are far more important than money, but on a day-to-day mundane basis (which is "our" world of work) it makes the world go around, and it's what we get out of bed for. Ask yourself how many RM staff would continue to come in if there was no wages forthcoming? The old "but we provide a service" cliche we quickly be forgotten, I'm sure.

All I ask, is that people stop putting us down, because of views like you. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else on this Planet. But just because I don't earn much money. It doesn't mean that I'm inferior.

No, you're right, it doesn't, but remind me again just how that squares with the original point re some current MC staff are well below standard in thier performance?

Interesting , have you read a lot of Durkheim or Weber

[fmrPOSTIE]

Alot of these Mail Centre staff have been institutionalised, have been working there since leaving school and dont no any different. Whether thats a bad thing or not, i'd be extremely nervous about the future if my whole career, sorry job - had been built around a nationalised industry.

You wont get a better paid job outside RM (and benefits).

[BELIAL]

Birds of a feather ,same old what's in your shopping bag ,old hat and outdated ,simple things don't work forever

[axeman]

My fmrpostie does see to have a bee in his bonnet perhaps someones rattled his cage in his distant past ?
not all r.m staff have been there since leaving school , university or whatever job they did previous to joining royal fail . as for better paid jobs outside it really depends on your perhaps previous employment or maybe your education or even your contacts outside of royal fail
Just because the likes of teaman grades people on the wages they earn as there are indeed more important things in life just imagine a loved one seriously ill you'd give your all to help, maybe even those that look on money as the ultimate goal in life also have missgivings for greed when it comes to family


maybe

[Tman]

Still making it up as you go along then, Agent Yorkie? (First paragraph)

Either that or comprehension was never a strong point with you. (Second paragraph)

I wonder if all the residents of so-called sink estates are happy altruistic ascetics like yourself?

[borders]

Alot of these Mail Centre staff have been institutionalised, have been working there since leaving school and dont no any different. Whether thats a bad thing or not, i'd be extremely nervous about the future if my whole career, sorry job - had been built around a nationalised industry.

You wont get a better paid job outside RM (and benefits).

what the f**k are you going on about ? spent a few years in Uni and you are suddenly so wise and worldly? the RM used to have a Cadet Scheme and young lads would join RM and learn all the aspects of RM and be on quite a good wage for their age. many blokes in my MC have had many jobs and including myself many have had careers in the forces. at one point we had 3 RSM working in the MC. anyone of them had more experience of life than any of the RM managers put together. when the managers talk about teamwork, we ex-squaddies laugh as they would not know teamwork if it hit them on their heads. we have PT foreign workers doing degrees at our local Uni , who if you bother to talk to them , are so intelligent it is unbelievable. so dont judge the book by its cover. we are all here as a means to an end. maybe you need to have a more understanding of what work is really all about, try this-----Under the capitalist system workers are no longer paid for the value of what they produce, nor do they retain rights to ownership of what they produce, instead they are paid by how little compensation someone else is willing to do the same job for. Just as it is understood that market competition drives the price of other commodities down, it has the same impact on labor when labor is a commodity.

Labor markets and other commodity markets are two separate and distinct markets. By separating the cost of labor from the value of labor, capitalists are able to increase profits. Profits are generated in part by the difference between the cost of labor and the value that the labor has created. as you can see there are outside forces that determine what wages many people are paid , not what they look like or how they dress. nobody is saying that you need a degree to be a postman but most of the workforce have had various experiences of life and some do have degrees.

[norbert]

that's why they are scathingly critical of RM - they've seen better , and seen worse and can say exactly why , RM don't like that because they are apparently " negative " ( the irony is the management style is very negative and they are not very positive either about anything that doesn't fit in the mantra - it's more about what they are against )

There are some people that are tainted beyond redemption and/or instuitionalized , the mistake made in the past by Senior & Middle Management that are pro - privatization in these industries is tarring everyone with the same brush with their " unique confrontational style of " management " ." The other mistake is the dumbing down of everything and race to the bottom , it tends to backfire as 1 . They can't take people with them / lead / motivate 2 . Their arrogance - a we know best attitude 3 . When everything goes wrong there's no plan B due to lack of experience with staff/ management who can only parrot out glib mantras at best .

[borders]

that's why they are scathingly critical of RM - they've seen better , and seen worse and can say exactly why , RM don't like that because they are apparently " negative " ( the irony is the management style is very negative and they are not very positive either about anything that doesn't fit in the mantra - it's more about what they are against )

There are some people that are tainted beyond redemption and/or instuitionalized , the mistake made in the past by Senior & Middle Management that are pro - privatization in these industries is tarring everyone with the same brush with their " unique confrontational style of " management " ." The other mistake is the dumbing down of everything and race to the bottom , it tends to backfire as 1 . They can't take people with them / lead / motivate 2 . Their arrogance - a we know best attitude 3 . When everything goes wrong there's no plan B due to lack of experience with staff/ management who can only parrot out glib mantras at best .

couldnt agree with you more Nobert.