Lets work towards our own future

[BELIAL]

Comedy and bankrupt, wait a mo ,I'm getting a vision,the fogs clearing, I see £500 million in lost revenue, massive subsidies to "competitors" AArgh a £7billion black hole.
Wakey wakey SW it is only a nightmare

[TrueBlueTerrier]

A workers buy out -

Sorry against any form of privatisation of Royal Mail as its a strategic asset and should be kept completely in government hands.
Also not sure the maths would work out. I reckon 185,000 employees and a guestimate of the value of the company without the Pension deficit would be £10 billion (on projected earnings/savings and assets) so each postie if everyone went for it would be £54,000 - and 1/3 of that (thats what appears on offer)= £18,000 each

[TrueBlueTerrier]

My first time on here, My name is steve.

Welcome mate hope you like the site all comments, as long as they are polite, are welcome.

I am suprised that we are not putting forward our own suggestions when there are so many views circulating in our depot. Rather than talking about how crap everybody is from the top levels of the Royal mail downwards. Lets figure out what we think should be happening.

Complaining is just another way of figuring out what to do. Everyone gets their feelings of their chest, one of the main reasons for RMC, and contributes how they see fit.

Should we be selling off part of our company. --- is there an alternative?

No - Yes keep us as a social service and wholly Government owned - however to do that we would have to come out of the EU. I don't think its beyond the bounds of possibilities of having proper competition rather than the contrived one we have at the moment, and perhaps then we would not need help to continue servicing the USO.

Should top management be ousted from the top?

Yes - they have lost the confidence of the Political masters and rather than improving the industrial relations of the company as recommended by the sawyer report they appear to have made it worse.

-- Who would replace them? and why?

A senior member of the Government and or Civil Service or someone from business who has the reputation of providing a good service rather than vast profits or a rep for Union busting.

How do we make our company Number One?

Measured against what or who. We deliver 99% of all letters, we still collect and sort 60% of bulk mail. No one else offers a UK wide E2E service.

Should we cut costs? why?

Depends if your target is too improve the service or finance profits.

Do we have to make a profit or are we a public service?

Public Service - we have in the past made profits.

Should we cut jobs?

Thats inevitable with modernisation, however there are ways of doing it such as consultation and agreements, Natural Wastage and offering incentive packages to either move with the job or leave on accepatble terms.

Should we work unpaid hours because our rounds are heavy?

NO - not even senior management think that - local managent may be different and should be put straight.

Are all rounds fair or is there a learning curve needed for newbies?

Because of the nature of the job there can never be such a creature as "equal rounds", however every effort should be made by Unions and Management to get as close as possible to this. There is a learning curve and it comes under the local training budget IIRC

Should the government be allowed to cream off the profits from Royal Mail?

In an ideal world all of it should be put back into the company for investment in new technology and products but if we stay Government owned they will always "cream a bit off"

Do managers go on courses to learn key words such as 'There is no problem' or I will see you when you get back'

yes they do seem exceeding good at demotivating staff don't they. I think a good move by RM would be send Managers on Leadership courses as they seem to be able to Manage but they certainly cant lead, and thats where everything falls down.

Is the union any good. If not why? How can we improve it.

Its not perfect but its the best we have got. To make it better more people should become more active within it. Attend meeting, join in discussion, back your rep up, don't complain about the CWU in front of management - all of these small things will help the Union to become better at what its trying to do - Promote Members and their aspirations.

Should we have part time workers?

- Yes some members owing to their situations cannot work full time hours so there should always be a certain amount of PT contracts. However they should be a balance between FT and PT hours set at certain level as once it falls below that level then QofS suffers, morale suffers, budgets suffer (OT being paid) and ultimately RM rep suffers and therefore so does its bottom line.

This company {At the moment} belongs to us, so lets see what we can do to keep it ours.
Lets start putting forward our own ideas rather than sitting back and letting unelected {unskilled } politicians Rule or Ruin our lives.

:mfo :mfo

[BELIAL]

A workers buy out -

Sorry against any form of privatisation of Royal Mail as its a strategic asset and should be kept completely in government hands.
Also not sure the maths would work out. I reckon 185,000 employees and a guestimate of the value of the company without the Pension deficit would be £10 billion (on projected earnings/savings and assets) so each postie if everyone went for it would be £54,000 - and 1/3 of that (thats what appears on offer)= £18,000 each

Not in favour of workers control eh. Preferred option would be state control You gonna get it from all sides
As for the maths ,Well to quote the most recent example,Woolies went on offer for £1 cos it's bank called in a loan of £324 million. Now RM has a govt. loan of £2 billion and a so called pension deficit of £7billion,so thats minus £9billion say less the ESCROW account {pifling). So at the market rate ,Woolies and 30,000 employees with a loan of £324 M. is worth £1 then RM with a debt of £9 billion and say 150,000 employees should be worth a payoff off of roughly £135 per worker/owner.Not to mention the fact that we are constantly told this is a market in terminal decline ,so a true business ironhead would probably quadruple the demand for appropriation. It's just the market and the going rate

[TrueBlueTerrier]

A workers buy out -

Sorry against any form of privatisation of Royal Mail as its a strategic asset and should be kept completely in government hands.
Also not sure the maths would work out. I reckon 185,000 employees and a guestimate of the value of the company without the Pension deficit would be £10 billion (on projected earnings/savings and assets) so each postie if everyone went for it would be £54,000 - and 1/3 of that (thats what appears on offer)= £18,000 each

Not in favour of workers control eh. Preferred option would be state control You gonna get it from all sides
As for the maths ,Well to quote the most recent example,Woolies went on offer for £1 cos it's bank called in a loan of £324 million. Now RM has a govt. loan of £2 billion and a so called pension deficit of £7billion,so thats minus £9billion say less the ESCROW account {pifling). So at the market rate ,Woolies and 30,000 employees with a loan of £324 M. is worth £1 then RM with a debt of £9 billion and say 150,000 employees should be worth a payoff off of roughly £135 per worker/owner.Not to mention the fact that we are constantly told this is a market in terminal decline ,so a true business ironhead would probably quadruple the demand for appropriation. It's just the market and the going rate

Not against workers control - it always seems to work better - but against any form of Buy Out that makes profit the main reason reason for existence rather than service. Anyway could you really see Politicians and City Fat Cats giving up any form of control unless its between those 2 groups.

[BELIAL]

That sounds like a good idea,all revenue to be reinvested in the workforce,improved and extended service, we could even diversify

Dead right about the establishment not "giving" up control, I was thinking along different lines

Interesting thing Control, specially when you consider what it ultimately would rely on

[k979aaa]

Don't forget we are in this mess because we had our hand's tied behind our back's and we still will who ever own's it!.

[Martin Walsh]

The point with workers control is that this was what was proposed a few years ago by Leighton was that indivuduals could after a period of time sell their shares and then off course it no longer becomes workers control but outright privatisation.

The reality is that i believe that some of doom and gloom Royal Mail have outlined is false. Remember the loss of traffic concides with the new way they measure traffic (delivery re -engineering ) as opposed to WLA weighing in delivery offices which Royal Mail stated was overstating traffic by up to 17%. The new way its caculated may overstate traffic loss now.

One of the Hooper key points is that Offcom now have full access to Royal Mail accounts as they believe that Royal Mail have been at best liberal about the state of the accounts.

Now with regards to a joint venture it simply totally unacceptable and not neccessariy.

Remember if the pension defcit is wiped out the 17 year deal to pay back the defcit in pension scheme would mean Royal Mail have an additional 270 million pounds to invest. Add this to the saving they have already made by ending the final salary scheme estimated to be 200 million in a six month period. On top of this is the 1.4 billion which Royal Mail borrowed last year but have yet to use.

Why would you need private investment if you got all this money to invest in Royal Mail ?

Well I tell you why because we have been Betrayed by this government a labour one at that.

They want to wash their hands of a publicly owned company but still with have their dividend. They want TNT and maybe some more companies to buy in the upstream part of the company and subsidise the USO.

In turn they can bring in their managers to advise Royal Mail. Hence the rumour that crozier will not have his contract renewed when its due in october and is already looking elsewhere.

The other thing which is wrong about hooper is the idea that Royal Mail have only made between 25 and 40 % of the effiency savings that they are expected to do and price increases will be assessed on this in the future.

The fact is that Royal Mail`s slash and burn appoarach has to be opposed.

As does the main points of the hooper report. It is time for action .

This union has given the labour party almost 6 million pounds since 2001 we now need to ballot the cwu membership on whether we fund them at the next election in line with our cwu confernence policy E6.

We can defeat this goverment if we all unite and we can defeat Royal Mail`s slash and burn policy if people start to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk and cave in to management pressure.

[Edward Hunter]

Defeat this government and turn to who! The tories will get hooper through the commons without doubt. BNP anyone? No doubt they would keep it publicly owned

[Martin Walsh]

Mr Hunter whats the BNP got to do with anything. Got no time for them whatsoever.

However defeating the Government can be done , as we already have a mini rebelion going on in the labour party over 50 mps opposed to the joint venture . If we lauch the right campaign politcal and industrial campaign amongst our members and the public then we can defeat the Government and make the tories think twice as we did back in 1994 when we defeated helstine plans.

But it sounds like you already given up !! Is that not the problem with this trade union everyone loves a moan but when it comes to do something well its left to just a few activists and an handful of branches to lead the fight .

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Everyone on here can contact their own MPs through http://www.theyworkforyou.com web page all you have to do is enter your postcode and when a new page opens with your MPs details there is a "Send a message to your MP ", use this to send an email via their site.

I have already done so asking him what his position will be on the Hooper report and part privatisation. Still no response but hey its Christmas and we can't expect out MPs to work the same days we do can we.

[BELIAL]

The point with workers control is that this was what was proposed a few years ago by Leighton was that indivuduals could after a period of time sell their shares and then off course it no longer becomes workers control but outright privatisation.

The reality is that i believe that some of doom and gloom Royal Mail have outlined is false. Remember the loss of traffic concides with the new way they measure traffic (delivery re -engineering ) as opposed to WLA weighing in delivery offices which Royal Mail stated was overstating traffic by up to 17%. The new way its caculated may overstate traffic loss now.

One of the Hooper key points is that Offcom now have full access to Royal Mail accounts as they believe that Royal Mail have been at best liberal about the state of the accounts.

Now with regards to a joint venture it simply totally unacceptable and not neccessariy.

Remember if the pension defcit is wiped out the 17 year deal to pay back the defcit in pension scheme would mean Royal Mail have an additional 270 million pounds to invest. Add this to the saving they have already made by ending the final salary scheme estimated to be 200 million in a six month period. On top of this is the 1.4 billion which Royal Mail borrowed last year but have yet to use.

Why would you need private investment if you got all this money to invest in Royal Mail ?

Well I tell you why because we have been Betrayed by this government a labour one at that.

They want to wash their hands of a publicly owned company but still with have their dividend. They want TNT and maybe some more companies to buy in the upstream part of the company and subsidise the USO.

In turn they can bring in their managers to advise Royal Mail. Hence the rumour that crozier will not have his contract renewed when its due in october and is already looking elsewhere.

The other thing which is wrong about hooper is the idea that Royal Mail have only made between 25 and 40 % of the effiency savings that they are expected to do and price increases will be assessed on this in the future.

The fact is that Royal Mail`s slash and burn appoarach has to be opposed.

As does the main points of the hooper report. It is time for action .

This union has given the labour party almost 6 million pounds since 2001 we now need to ballot the cwu membership on whether we fund them at the next election in line with our cwu confernence policy E6.

We can defeat this goverment if we all unite and we can defeat Royal Mail`s slash and burn policy if people start to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk and cave in to management pressure.

Ahh ,but I aint talking about Mr Effluent man Leightons vision. I'm talking about the folks who do the work everyday, who give their time and sweat to get the task done,the folks who are the real backbone of this service,without whom ,nothing ,thats nothing gets done.
Give them all a share issue according to their weekly hours worked,proportional voting rights Give the people who work in the field the freedom to choose their future,not much to ask for really

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The point with workers control is that this was what was proposed a few years ago by Leighton was that indivuduals could after a period of time sell their shares and then off course it no longer becomes workers control but outright privatisation.

The reality is that i believe that some of doom and gloom Royal Mail have outlined is false. Remember the loss of traffic concides with the new way they measure traffic (delivery re -engineering ) as opposed to WLA weighing in delivery offices which Royal Mail stated was overstating traffic by up to 17%. The new way its caculated may overstate traffic loss now.

One of the Hooper key points is that Offcom now have full access to Royal Mail accounts as they believe that Royal Mail have been at best liberal about the state of the accounts.

Now with regards to a joint venture it simply totally unacceptable and not neccessariy.

Remember if the pension defcit is wiped out the 17 year deal to pay back the defcit in pension scheme would mean Royal Mail have an additional 270 million pounds to invest. Add this to the saving they have already made by ending the final salary scheme estimated to be 200 million in a six month period. On top of this is the 1.4 billion which Royal Mail borrowed last year but have yet to use.

Why would you need private investment if you got all this money to invest in Royal Mail ?

Well I tell you why because we have been Betrayed by this government a labour one at that.

They want to wash their hands of a publicly owned company but still with have their dividend. They want TNT and maybe some more companies to buy in the upstream part of the company and subsidise the USO.

In turn they can bring in their managers to advise Royal Mail. Hence the rumour that crozier will not have his contract renewed when its due in october and is already looking elsewhere.

The other thing which is wrong about hooper is the idea that Royal Mail have only made between 25 and 40 % of the effiency savings that they are expected to do and price increases will be assessed on this in the future.

The fact is that Royal Mail`s slash and burn appoarach has to be opposed.

As does the main points of the hooper report. It is time for action .

This union has given the labour party almost 6 million pounds since 2001 we now need to ballot the cwu membership on whether we fund them at the next election in line with our cwu confernence policy E6.

We can defeat this goverment if we all unite and we can defeat Royal Mail`s slash and burn policy if people start to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk and cave in to management pressure.

Ahh ,but I aint talking about Mr Effluent man Leightons vision. I'm talking about the folks who do the work everyday, who give their time and sweat to get the task done,the folks who are the real backbone of this service,without whom ,nothing ,thats nothing gets done.
Give them all a share issue according to their weekly hours worked,proportional voting rights Give the people who work in the field the freedom to choose their future,not much to ask for really

Yep nowt wrong with that Belial.

These shares whether real or pseudo ones colleagueshares give no control whatsoever to the workforce, even if they have voting rights the Senior Managers will really on apathy or will keep firm control over the controlling shares.

[Yahoorsur]

it will be interesting to see wether the unions proposal,will include worker/union representation on the board of Royal Mail,thats one proposal that I would support,my old dad once told me that the NUM,missed a good oppertunity to have representation on the board of the NCB,they were offered it in 1946 pre nationalisation,it would have given them a chance to change many policies over the years.

[Martin Walsh]

I think your all missing the point what is the point of discussing the workers buy out its as likely as winning the lottery. The current pension defcit is over 7.5 billion and growing . The report reccomends a further 50 to 60 % more enfierciences appox 50 000 jobs. Who is suddenly going to buy into a workers control idea.

Tn the reality is that the Government sees private capital in the way of joint vertures either one or a few as subsidising the USO. No workers control issue will do this.

In any case the CWU have rejected the Hooper report . The CWU is opposed to the Joint venture and the slash and burn policy of Royal Mail. We now have 100 mps who oppose this as well with hardly any campaign imagine what support we can get if we lauch a politcal and idustrial campaign similar to the stand by your post campagin when we defeated the tory party plan which helstine was in charge with.

With regards to the cwu position on the board that has been offered but what does it mean ? Will we be listen to will we have vote etc. Remember their is already a trade union reprsentative on the board margret prosser and she has been no use to us whatsoever. In any case an independent trade union which is strong and united should be able to force any employer to listen to us. The sad thing is our headquaters and in particular our main leaders are far from united and this has stopped thus far proper campaigning as one side wants just a politcal mp lobbying campagin and the other want a unprecented industrial and political campagn of the membership and public.

This vaccum has let crozier and his cronies push through changes such as pensions , mail centre closures , budget cuts , 1 hour contracts and numerous other attacks without a proper national response.

Crozier in his letter to the all employees addresses didt mention the CWU once . Very revealing when you consider it was one of the recommendations in the hooper report to improve the CWU and Royal Mail relationship. Even more surprising when you consider membership levels of the CWU in Royal Mail is 85% with most cities in the mid 90s.

Look I know some on this board love a debate and enjoy the banter. But surely this board can provide a better vechile to assist in the fight against the Hooper / goverment reprot.

Look a few on this site know me and know in the divison we cover we will do our bit to assist branch`s around the country and intend to put as much pressure on the NEC and GS to carry out the full terms of motiion E6.