Do you really care?

Night Tonic · Post by **Night Tonic** » 14 Dec 2008, 11:33

All that strike was doing Borders was, in the end, being bounced straight back to you with bigger cuts later on. The strike ethos is long dead. That power is gone. It wouldn't matter if your office had so much mail you couldn't get in there, the government and RM have YOU by the balls, not the other way around. Less than a couple of days ago I said the pension bill would be taken out and the business sold off in bits and guess what, thats what the press is full of today. Want another prediction or do you still have faith in the brotherhood?

your_postie · Post by **your_postie** » 14 Dec 2008, 12:59

our union has not got enough balls to pull off a proper strike

a big % of members have lost faith and probably wouldn't even go out on strike

the last card to play is simple... do your job properly... and do it every day from now on.

you won't lose a penny... and overtime of plenty.

what can they do? bugger all, as we are delivering how they say we should.

borders · Post by **borders** » 14 Dec 2008, 13:35

Night Tonic wrote:All that strike was doing Borders was, in the end, being bounced straight back to you with bigger cuts later on. The strike ethos is long dead. That power is gone. It wouldn't matter if your office had so much mail you couldn't get in there, the government and RM have YOU by the balls, not the other way around. Less than a couple of days ago I said the pension bill would be taken out and the business sold off in bits and guess what, thats what the press is full of today. Want another prediction or do you still have faith in the brotherhood?

you are totally missing the point , that strike was never fully played out and as Linkinpark remarks his area was in the same position as ours ,the outcome could have been different . our CWU top boys caved in , under pressure of course . now that has been and gone and it was a defeat for us/ CWU . the workforce may not be up for another battle in the future?. i dont disagree with a lot that you say in your post and other previous posts , in fact the vision that Tman and your goodself have of the future for RM i dont doubt for one minute will happen. but i think it will be a sad day when that happens and to be frank , Wrong , the RM sould be a public service operating for the benefit of everyone. MR TMAN , no need to respond to this as i can guess what your reply would be !!!

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 14 Dec 2008, 13:37

zedrac wrote:If TNT finally take over the postal service due to RMs own employees hindering the change and progress needed to compete in the real world:-

Do you think they will be a better employer?
What makes you think that TNT would want to buy us out?
They can only undercut us, because we're changing less than it costs, to deliver the mail for them.

Do you think you will get a better deal?
Do you thnk that because they have bad working conditions, we should be willing to accept the same?
You'll be telling us next, that we should have Sweat Shops, with Children working in them. So we can compete with certain other Countries.

Would you really want to work for them?
No, I prefer to work somewhere, where I can provide a SERVICE to the Public. Not take the credit for others hard work!

It could happen, they are capable of doing everything RM does, given the chance.I have seen it happen in other industries ( not always worked for RM), and happen almost overnight.
You're joking, right?
Look at these Links, from the TNT Website, before claiming that they would have ANY chance of doing what we do: http://www.tntpost.co.uk/Mail/ http://www.tntpost.co.uk/Mail/00Downstream_Access.html
It pays, to read things properly. Rather than ust taking notice of the often misleading headlines.

http://www.tntpost.co.uk/

Should make for an interesting debate.

If you ignore the insult posts, from yourself. Not just from others.

There are some VERY interesting points being made on both sides.

The sad fact is, that if (as many are predicting) the Government decides to try a system like the one that replaced BR. At the moment, RM would be in a position to devastate the so-called Competition. Because we would no longer have the burden of delivering an increasing volume of Downstream Access Mail, at a loss. So there's little chance of them doing that yet.

But I think it's far more likley that they will sell us off, to the highest bidder. Who would then, have to provide the E2E service. Sound nuts?
Think about it. If they removed the cap on the cost of Downstream Access. Then whoever was providing that service, would be able to make a profit on it. And as it's not yet (if ever) possible for the so-called Competition, to provide their OWN E2E service. They would have no choice, but to use it.

It's a worrying thought, isn't it?

Night Tonic · Post by **Night Tonic** » 14 Dec 2008, 14:49

Very true and theres even a third possibility where the Pension deficit and the USO is dropped on the nation and the profitable bits shared out. With reference to all the claims that RM would have 'caved in' if the CWU had hung in there, sorry I don't buy that. There will always be a few, and it is a few, that have convinced themselves that standing together with linked arms would have defeated the capitalist oppressors or some such nonsense but its a blinkered view even on a good day. The CWU just weren't smart enough and were stuck in the 70s mentality that staying out changes things. It doesn't and it hasn't and it won't. Everytime the union was presented with facts and figures whether right or wrong, they were totally out of their depth, harping on about 'service', not keeping their eye on the ball and cock sure that standing their ground was the way to win. Brains will always win out over brawn in situations like this but its not something the CWU is accustomed to. The final solution is nigh.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 14 Dec 2008, 14:57

.

but i think it will be a sad day when that happens and to be frank , Wrong , the RM sould be a public service operating for the benefit of everyone. MR TMAN , no need to respond to this as i can guess what your reply would be !!!

You can guess better than me then, as I don't even see what point you're trying to make.
You're obviously alluding to something, but as to what it may be........

borders · Post by **borders** » 14 Dec 2008, 15:57

a deluded Wolfie Smith blah , blah, blah or maybe "That Utopian dream is as far off as ever.....

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 14 Dec 2008, 16:10

I think we've all missed the most important point, the 'competition' will only take on the profitable parts, probably the MC's and certain DO's (large offices covering large towns or cities) and the rest will be left to the government to deal with.

And now for something that I never thought I'd say but maybe it's time the NI breaks away from UK RM and join forces with An Post because if the competition gets it's way then we'll end up being charged the same as sending mail/packets to the ROI.

axeman · Post by **axeman** » 14 Dec 2008, 16:16

Note .....it's only a 'report' wether the one sided findings will be administered by browns government is another thing so don't think your on the winning side yet teaman , nightronic as thing may not be as clear cut as you think !!!

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 14 Dec 2008, 16:43

borders wrote:a deluded Wolfie Smith blah , blah, blah or maybe "That Utopian dream is as far off as ever.....

Oh, right.....

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » 14 Dec 2008, 16:53

Thing is will be better than what we have now? and the answer is NO

A reliable postal service needs to remain in government hands or all customers will be shafted, not just the employees. The workforce overtime won't give two shites whether they can deliver your parcel or post on time, it will become a thieves paradise based on casual staff from all walks of life, it really will become a third class service with a driving force for profit only.

If you think this is the way forward and are prepared to do nothing then sit back and relax and dream of the old days when it was a good service.

Yahoorsur · Post by **Yahoorsur** » 14 Dec 2008, 17:03

Night Tonic wrote:Very true and theres even a third possibility where the Pension deficit and the USO is dropped on the nation and the profitable bits shared out. With reference to all the claims that RM would have 'caved in' if the CWU had hung in there, sorry I don't buy that. There will always be a few, and it is a few, that have convinced themselves that standing together with linked arms would have defeated the capitalist oppressors or some such nonsense but its a blinkered view even on a good day. The CWU just weren't smart enough and were stuck in the 70s mentality that staying out changes things. It doesn't and it hasn't and it won't. Everytime the union was presented with facts and figures whether right or wrong, they were totally out of their depth, harping on about 'service', not keeping their eye on the ball and cock sure that standing their ground was the way to win. Brains will always win out over brawn in situations like this but its not something the CWU is accustomed to. The final solution is nigh.

Do you want to rethink that last bit of the post NT?

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 14 Dec 2008, 17:06

Yahoorsur wrote:
Night Tonic wrote:Very true and theres even a third possibility where the Pension deficit and the USO is dropped on the nation and the profitable bits shared out. With reference to all the claims that RM would have 'caved in' if the CWU had hung in there, sorry I don't buy that. There will always be a few, and it is a few, that have convinced themselves that standing together with linked arms would have defeated the capitalist oppressors or some such nonsense but its a blinkered view even on a good day. The CWU just weren't smart enough and were stuck in the 70s mentality that staying out changes things. It doesn't and it hasn't and it won't. Everytime the union was presented with facts and figures whether right or wrong, they were totally out of their depth, harping on about 'service', not keeping their eye on the ball and cock sure that standing their ground was the way to win. Brains will always win out over brawn in situations like this but its not something the CWU is accustomed to. The final solution is nigh.

Do you want to rethink that last bit of the post NT?

I do hope it was only a mistake

borders · Post by **borders** » 14 Dec 2008, 17:10

Tman wrote:
borders wrote:a deluded Wolfie Smith blah , blah, blah or maybe "That Utopian dream is as far off as ever.....
Oh, right.....

dont let me down

NWpostie · Post by **NWpostie** » 14 Dec 2008, 20:14

Night Tonic wrote:Very true and theres even a third possibility where the Pension deficit and the USO is dropped on the nation and the profitable bits shared out. With reference to all the claims that RM would have 'caved in' if the CWU had hung in there, sorry I don't buy that. There will always be a few, and it is a few, that have convinced themselves that standing together with linked arms would have defeated the capitalist oppressors or some such nonsense but its a blinkered view even on a good day. The CWU just weren't smart enough and were stuck in the 70s mentality that staying out changes things. It doesn't and it hasn't and it won't. Everytime the union was presented with facts and figures whether right or wrong, they were totally out of their depth, harping on about 'service', not keeping their eye on the ball and cock sure that standing their ground was the way to win. Brains will always win out over brawn in situations like this but its not something the CWU is accustomed to. The final solution is nigh.

Let me ask a couple of questions, is it right for the Pension issue and USO to be ignored ? when I joined up we were promised a final salary Pension, this was destroyed by Gordon Brown's stealth tax and RM management pension payment holiday, why should we accept a pension cuts due to their incompetence ?

Also The title Royal Mail is significant, this gives a royal privilage to provide a service to the Public including the disabled who could not get out of their houses, we are a social service more than just a business to all kind of customers who can be nice for most parts, some downright nasty and petty victor meldrews, which is sometimes run at a loss also at a profit (which previous Govts have creamed off), also the Staff are vetted and has a responsible position whch is the safety and safe delivery of Mail in exchange for stable Job and security.

to employ casuals without any vested interest in Job security will only destroy the integrity of RM, there have been incident of casual (also in my office) dumping or stealing mail when they couldn't be bothered completing.

the Union is not usually strike prone in the past, at that time everybody was working well together Managers and Posties, the was no need to rock the boat, common sense ruled, these days some Mangers have never been on Delivery and don't know the job, with only a Business Degree for qualifications, New Brooms nearly always come up with a bright idea to change things in RM and upsetting a lot of people, Posties AND Customers.

I don't like striking and I am sure most Posties don't as they know it can be damaging to the business and threatening Jobs, certain areas of the UK are prone to be bolshy, not all, Strike are a last resort for most, how do you expect the Staff to respond to threats to Jobs and Pensions ? you cannot expect them to just roll over accept it.

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