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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Latest Royal Mail and CWU news.This is an open forum.
norbert
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by norbert »

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:My fav
I suspect am one of the main Post Office users in North Wales - several thousand items posted a week - and I cannot find praise enough for the way the post is handled. Losses and damage are almost non-existent.
However, the other side of the coin is the senior post office management, most of whom really ought to be taken out and shot!
If only an efficient management could be welded to the existing workforce........................


Tristan Bradshaw, Bangor, United Kingdom
:Applause :left:
a trip to Dignitas in Switzerland would be a ideal self - promotion TV opportunity for a certain "publicity shy" RM executive
Last edited by norbert on 11 Dec 2008, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
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norbert
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by norbert »

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
Anyway, the idea of making posties walk at 4mph is quite funny. How will management tell? I’ve got visions of RM bosses standing on Tunstall high street with a speed gun, waiting for the posties to wander past.
The bad news is they plan the duties at a walking speed of 4MPH :crazy:
these RM quotes parroted out - are they by real people ? - they sound robotic or like something off a computer programme

Hellmail have done a toned down version on their site - only there has only been complaints to the Union :Very Happy :silenced - there's also the don't strike boys article - you'll all lose money for nothing

regardless of the Union's previous naivety in negotiating and policy of appeasement and compromise - RM are taking a bit of a pasting - couldn't happen to nicer people :left: - re . local sackings for apparent "dawdling " - the Union wants to put more media pressure on RM

however the MC's strikes aren't going down very well in the same paper - usual Colonel Blimp types - bring back child chimney sweeps and other child labour etc stuff

3 MPH apparently is Quick March - 4 MPH is double - time and a H&S offence
Last edited by norbert on 12 Dec 2008, 19:49, edited 2 times in total.
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BELIAL
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by BELIAL »

Hats off to the CWU leadership for once, credit where credit is due ,a high profile media hit with big public awareness and response. Lots of public awareness and positive comment all day ,but I hadn't heard the news so was a tad puzzled :chuckle
And the bit about RM denying the required walk speed being 4mph, shameless liars :cry
Bye
Stormproof
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by Stormproof »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... stmen.html

Royal Mail told us to walk faster on rounds to save money, claim furious postmen
By Becky Barrow
Last updated at 8:08 PM on 11th December 2008
Comments (52) Add to My Stories
Postal workers have complained they are being told to walk at the faster pace of 4mph as opposed to 2.4mph
It has long been the complaint of thousands of householders, why does their post arrive after lunchtime?

Now it seems the answer was very simple all along - our postmen simply do not walk fast enough.

An astonishing row broke out between Royal Mail management and staff today after unions claimed there members are being asked to walk at a speedy four miles per hour to deliver the post.

That is a little over the average adult walking speed of 3.5 mph - but without a postbag attached to your shoulder - and the same speed as as a canal boat or a travel mobility scooter.

Unions are blaming a new computer system for forcing postmen to deliver an 'unrealistic' amount of letters.

The Canadian computer system, called Pegasus, decides the most logical route for the postmen to deliver the mail on their round, known as a 'walk'.

On average, they have to deliver to about 400 to 500 addresses every day within a three and a half hour slot.

But the system dictates that they must be walking at an average speed of four miles per hour in order to deliver all the mail before the end of their shift.

This is simply not possible on most of the 66,500 'walks' in Britain, insists the Communication Workers' Union.

If they were just walking to the local shop or to visit a friend in the neighbourhood, they could manage it. But a delivery round is not so straightforward. It involves anything from winding garden paths to a long wait for a customer to sign for a recorded delivery.

If they have to keep up the pace for three and a half hours, the pressure is even greater.

One former Outward Bound instructor, Ian Blake, said he walks four and a half miles every day - and it usually takes one hour and 20 minutes.

He regards a speed of four miles per hour as 'trotting' - and this is a man who has 'walked 1,300 miles and done Everest twice' this year

The CWU is furious about the new system which it says is leading to its workers being 'bullied and harassed.'

It claims to have been 'inundated' by complaints from postmen who are trying, but failing, to keep up a pace which would make a fitness instructor struggle.

One postmen, who did not want to be named, said he is required to jog to deliver all the letters on his round.

Despite his exertions, he received two telephone calls from his manager by the end of his shift saying that he had 'not been quick enough'.

Postmen who fail to deliver all the letters within the strict time slot are being told off by their managers.

If they repeatedly return to the sorting office with a bag of undelivered letters, they are being subjected to disciplinary proceedings.

In the most extreme cases, this has involved workers being suspended.

Bob Gibson, a national officer at the CWU, said: 'Royal Mail is using this system to meet financial savings without considering the physical realities of delivery rounds.
'This is putting pressure on delivery workers and leading to bullying and harassment.'

The CWU says it has drawn up a map of 'failures' around the country where the system is causing mail backlogs. Problem areas include Watford, Enfield, Oxford, Coventry, Belfast, Cambridge and Evesham, Worcestershire.

But the Royal Mail says the union's claims are 'complete nonsense'.

It insists that the average speed is only two miles per hour, exactly half the speed claimed by the union.

A Royal Mail spokesman said: 'Royal Mail carefully plans every postman and postwoman's walk so that no one is asked to cover a greater distance or deliver more mail than they are capable of doing. It is complete nonsense and completely untrue to suggest otherwise.

'The speed at which we ask our postmen and women to walk is around two miles per hour and the systems we use to help us plan the most effective delivery walks are used in many other countries.'

The CWU insists that Royal Mail's claim of a two mile per hour speed is wrong.
It has slides of a presentation given by Royal Mail managers which refer to a walking speed of 6.44 or 6.19 kilometres per hour, or four miles per hour.
So keep on moving, moving, moving your feet
Keep on shuf-shuf-shuffling to this ghost dance beat
Just keep on walking down never ending streets


Illegitimi non carborundum
Spedley
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by Spedley »

From what I gather in our office, the 3.5 hour walk is based on 4mph incuding the length of driveways with 9 seconds per delivery pount and a 90% call rate and 15 minutes allocated to pouch drops. I also 'guess' that thatere will be an average of over 500 delivery points per walk.

Realistically, on an a non-heavy day I could deliver the mail in the specified time but it would be tiring and the probablility of an accident or a mistake at the end would be quite high.
The problem I have is that in a 6 hour shift with 30mins break, that leaves me 2 hours to prep letters,flats and packets, do the redirections, bundle and pouch up, collect special and cycle to and from the delivery.

Perhaps if I worked for 6 hours in silence and everything went well (no major missorts, recordeds or packets etc) then I could do it all on a Tuesday within the specified time but that would mean that overtime would be compulsary to complete it on a Wednesday.

For some reason our office hasn't implemented longs and shorts which would 'help', except that then I wouldn't be able to complete on a Tuesday. I really don't know where they get their facts about prep rates etc from?

EDIT: I should add that I'm a 6 foot youngish bloke and reasonably fit.
Last edited by Spedley on 11 Dec 2008, 22:01, edited 2 times in total.
Phantom
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by Phantom »

Basically tell the manager to get f****d - do the walk at whatever is comfortable for you and if you can't complete put the ball back in their court, work your contractual hours and go home. Simple. I've been doing it for the last 12 years
CUT OFF!!!
dvbuk55
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by dvbuk55 »

Apparently there are slides from presentations given by Royal Mail to managers and reps which include recommended walk speeds of 6.44kph, I can't actually verify their existence but I can say that the source is impeccable.
DGP1
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by DGP1 »

Key Issues
CALL RATE
Call rate can be global for the office or per sector, or individual walk.
Firms/LU delivery points receive 100% call rate
Takes into account the traffic for the office and the number of DP’s
CWU method within guidelines
WALK SPEED/TERRAIN MODEL
Historically Pegasus has 6.44 (4mph) or 6.19 (3.8mph)
Flat, Undulating 5.5(3.4mph), Steep 4.74(2.95mph)
HCT 6.05 (3.76mph) or 5.82 (3.6 mph)
RM DBP Strongly advise managers to use 6.44
RM say these speeds are Ergonomically derived
From page 27 of the Final Georoute Training.
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dvbuk55
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by dvbuk55 »

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
Key Issues
CALL RATE
Call rate can be global for the office or per sector, or individual walk.
Firms/LU delivery points receive 100% call rate
Takes into account the traffic for the office and the number of DP’s
CWU method within guidelines
WALK SPEED/TERRAIN MODEL
Historically Pegasus has 6.44 (4mph) or 6.19 (3.8mph)
Flat, Undulating 5.5(3.4mph), Steep 4.74(2.95mph)
HCT 6.05 (3.76mph) or 5.82 (3.6 mph)
RM DBP Strongly advise managers to use 6.44
RM say these speeds are Ergonomically derived
From page 27 of the Final Georoute Training.
If we knew this beforehand, then why have we gone ahead with it and having taken that initial step why hasn't the trials exposed the failures? Could it be that RM and indeed the Union are ignoring trial results and pressing on with change regardless. The next step is park and loop and it doesn't work, in our office people who are supposed to be on park and loop are still going out in their car and the second person takes the van and just does the round that was done before as a walk :crazy: :crazy: - honest to God you couldn't make it up.
DGP1
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by DGP1 »

I personally like this one better because it makes no sense at all :crazy:
Thank you for your email to Allan Leighton.

Allan has asked me to look into your case.

Within the Pegasus application a number of parameters come together to make
up the overall working speed expected of a postman on a delivery route. It
is important that these parameters are not assessed individually but rather
collectively. Below is a break down of how the expected walking speed is
achieved.

A speed of 6.44km/hr and a calling time of 6.6 or 9 seconds are applied to
each delivery point (address point). 6.6 seconds for address with no path
to the door and 9 seconds for address with paths leading to the door. The
calling time is the average time allowed to open and close gates to the
house, take out mail and any signed for items.

How it is made up:

Average calling time 9+6.6/2 = 7.8 seconds
Average number of delivery points per route = 450
Average call rate (which the frequency delivery point receiving mail on
each delivery route each day) is 85%
This means 382.5 of the 450 delivery points will receive mail each time the
postman goes out on a delivery round.

Typically a delivery route is about 9km long taking an average of 3.5 hours
(210mins) to complete.

Applying an average calling time of 7.8 seconds to 382.5 dps = 2983.8
seconds = 49.73mins = approximately 50 mins (for ease of illustration)
This therefore means 9km is covered in (210-50) mins = 160mins = 2 hours
40mins (2.67)

To work out the overall expected walking speed from this would

2.67=9
1 = X

X = 3.37km/hr = 2.1m/hr

It is important to note that if the expected walking speed of our postmen
and women throughout a delivery round is 6.44km/hr, they will have to cover
a total ground distance of 22.5km at the end of 3.5 hours delivery duty.
This is clearly not the case as our postmen and women cover on average 9km
on each route.

Many Thanks

Robert

Robert Brushfield-Hodges
Executive Correspondence Manager
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i love mail sort
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by i love mail sort »

norbert
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Walking pace upped to 4mph has postmen complaining

Post by norbert »

GOOD ONE HERE
" I currently work for RM group , apart from RM , I've worked for Sheffield Council - Education dept and various other groups .
I personally believe that RM group is one of the best employers in the UK with the best employment policy , pay rewards and bonus schemes .

I am also a CWU member :left: :left: but feel the union is out of touch with reality in the real world :left: . Postmen are paid to deliver mails and in every duty there are targets and that's for everyone .
Ahmed Sheffield - Page 19 Thu 11/12 1342 - Sorry " CWU member " Ahmed but that's a bit ? obvious - I hope that post was worth it :no no

Not all of Joe Public's stuff is positive though - the Metro message board is beyond Parody :d'oh!
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