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Oversize packets

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
pickaname
Posts: 1467
Joined: 11 Sep 2007, 20:24

Oversize packets

Post by pickaname »

johnnyp wrote:
pickaname wrote:FFS...what exactly are we discussing here?

The bottom line is take out everything and work to your time. Inform your manager you may not complete if you think you may run out of time due to large packets taking space in your pouch.

Remember there is a maximum weight for each pouch in order of delivery 16kg, 16kg, 12kg, 10, 10, 8, 8, 8...
Sticking to this means more trips to the bag drop and less time to deliver, especially when large packets are being thrown at you. Also you wont be able to take more than 8kg back to the office.

Use your head and stop wasting your life away for a manager.
I disagree with this point of your statement friend :no no this is why we have various guidelines,bag weights, trolley weights etc to make sure Safe Systems of work and Health and Safety are being adhere to or else all hell would break loose in DOs up and down the country.That Template is a guideline at the end of the day,it does not mean that everything that fits through it must go on a walker :mad weight and amounts should also be taken in to consideration as well.
Exactly what I was trying to say. For the sake of health and safety, if you feel you cant complete and your manager insists you take larger packets, break your pouches down in line wth the pouch weight matrix then cut off.

btw...ive never seen this template in use in my office.
DGP1
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Oversize packets

Post by DGP1 »

dvbuk55 wrote:Thanks for that johnnyp - there is an opinion that seems to think it has to fit every which way, but the simple truth is if it fits through it goes on the walk. There are other considerations of course, weight is, in my opinion, probably the most important.
Sorry about that, what I meant to say was that if the packet has to be forced into the templete, using the old 'it fits if I turn it this way and then that' :angel
I'm preparing myself for the zombie invasion, rule number 1 - Cardio
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Oversize packets

Post by dvbuk55 »

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Thanks for that johnnyp - there is an opinion that seems to think it has to fit every which way, but the simple truth is if it fits through it goes on the walk. There are other considerations of course, weight is, in my opinion, probably the most important.
Sorry about that, what I meant to say was that if the packet has to be forced into the templete, using the old 'it fits if I turn it this way and then that' :angel
Personally speaking if it's a bit tight I use a plastic mallet - and I use that on the template as well :oops: :chuckle
DGP1
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Oversize packets

Post by DGP1 »

dvbuk55 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Thanks for that johnnyp - there is an opinion that seems to think it has to fit every which way, but the simple truth is if it fits through it goes on the walk. There are other considerations of course, weight is, in my opinion, probably the most important.
Sorry about that, what I meant to say was that if the packet has to be forced into the templete, using the old 'it fits if I turn it this way and then that' :angel
Personally speaking if it's a bit tight I use a plastic mallet - and I use that on the template as well :oops: :chuckle
There you go, boasting again :nervous I personally use a shoe horn :oops:
I'm preparing myself for the zombie invasion, rule number 1 - Cardio
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Oversize packets

Post by dvbuk55 »

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Thanks for that johnnyp - there is an opinion that seems to think it has to fit every which way, but the simple truth is if it fits through it goes on the walk. There are other considerations of course, weight is, in my opinion, probably the most important.
Sorry about that, what I meant to say was that if the packet has to be forced into the templete, using the old 'it fits if I turn it this way and then that' :angel
Personally speaking if it's a bit tight I use a plastic mallet - and I use that on the template as well :oops: :chuckle
There you go, boasting again :nervous I personally use a shoe horn :oops:
:chuckle :chuckle :chuckle Maybe it wouldn't do for me I'm a size 18 shoe ;liar
DGP1
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Oversize packets

Post by DGP1 »

dvbuk55 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Thanks for that johnnyp - there is an opinion that seems to think it has to fit every which way, but the simple truth is if it fits through it goes on the walk. There are other considerations of course, weight is, in my opinion, probably the most important.
Sorry about that, what I meant to say was that if the packet has to be forced into the templete, using the old 'it fits if I turn it this way and then that' :angel
Personally speaking if it's a bit tight I use a plastic mallet - and I use that on the template as well :oops: :chuckle
There you go, boasting again :nervous I personally use a shoe horn :oops:
:chuckle :chuckle :chuckle Maybe it wouldn't do for me I'm a size 18 shoe ;liar
Well, you know what they say about people with big feet :nervous
I'm preparing myself for the zombie invasion, rule number 1 - Cardio
brothermagrew
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Oversize packets

Post by brothermagrew »

woofwoof wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:
woofwoof wrote:theres a packet size and wieght a walking man/woman can carry under the uso
Packets are not included in the USO, which is the reason they can be left for days on end without any problems.
It appears that I'm wrong :d'oh!
And from a CWU research doc dated October 2004:

The Universal Service

Royal Mail is subject to a Universal Service Obligation (USO) the key requirements of which are to:

 Deliver letters and parcels up to 20kg to all addresses (bar certain limited exceptions as specified by Postcomm) at least once a day.

 Collect mail at least once a day from each ‘access point’.



Research doc in full: http://www.cwu.org/uploads/documents/RD ... rofile.doc
Thanks to Brothermagrew :Applause

that link does not work
Brother the link did work as I checked it out after posting but I can only think since the new revamped CWU Website is up and running things have gone amiss.
"Today’s workplace has become heartless and soulless. Employees are seen as units of labour, automatons, functionaries, objects for achieving designated tasks, and as costs to be minimised."
brothermagrew
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Oversize packets

Post by brothermagrew »

For brother woofwoof when he comes online again:

CWU RESEARCH BRIEFING DOC:

Royal Mail is one of the three main businesses operating as part of the Royal Mail Group, the others being Post Office Ltd and Parcelforce Worldwide.

Royal Mail is responsible for the collection, sorting and delivery of mail in the UK. In 2003 Royal Mail regained responsibility from Parcelforce for the collection sorting and delivery of standard parcels; Parcelforce now deals almost exclusively with the business market for parcels.

Royal Mail handles some 82 million items a day and has a statutory duty to provide a delivery service to 27 million addresses in the UK for letters and for parcels weighing up to 20kg.

Six days a week Royal Mail delivers daily to all addresses in the UK and provides a collection service from post boxes, Post Offices, businesses and organizations throughout the UK.

Basic statistics

 In the 2003-2004 financial year Royal Mail handled 23.5 billion items. This was a 1.6% increase in mail volumes from the previous year and was due mainly to growth in use of bulk mail products.

 Royal Mail distributes letters and parcels to 27 million addresses throughout the UK. Mail is collected from 16,000 Post Offices and 115,000 Post Boxes and distributed through 72 mail centres and 100 distribution centres.

Financial situation

 Royal Mail had an external turnover of £6,589m in the 2003-2004 financial year, up £299m on the previous year, and accounting for 76% of the total external turnover of the Royal Mail Group. This increase in turnover was due mainly to the price increases for UK letters in May 2003 and to the volume increases referred to above.

 Royal Mail made a £253m profit from operations in the 2003-2004 financial year, up £233m on the previous year. It is clear that the core activities carried out by Royal Mail are very profitable – during 2003/4 its profits accounted for 115% of the £220m overall profit from operations.

 The turnover of Royal Mail’s international letters operation declined by 2% (12m); volumes were lower because of higher prices and electronic substitution.

The Universal Service

Royal Mail is subject to a Universal Service Obligation (USO) the key requirements of which are to:

 Deliver letters and parcels up to 20kg to all addresses (bar certain limited exceptions as specified by Postcomm) at least once a day.

 Collect mail at least once a day from each ‘access point’.


 Access points include post boxes and post offices; post boxes should be no more that 500m away from 99% of addresses in post code areas in which there are more than 200 addresses per km2; post offices should be no further away 10km away from 95% of users.

 Postage prices should be affordable and subject to a geographically uniform tariff.

Regulation of the postal market

 Royal Mail is regulated by Postcomm, the independent regulator set up by government in 2000. The postal industry has undergone major changes in recent years as the regulator has eroded Royal Mail’s monopoly and opened up the market to competition from new operators.

 40% of Royal Mail’s market by volume was opened to competition by Postcomm in 2003. The rest of the market was to be opened in two stages between now and 2007, however, Postcomm have recently proposed bringing this forward and fully opening the market fully, in one step, on 1st January 2006. This would mean further acceleration of deregulation in the UK ahead of the timetable set out by the European Union directive on postal services.

 The opening up of Royal Mail’s market to competition has not so far had a significant effect on Royal Mail’s market share; it still handles over 99% of letters in the UK. The extent to which Royal Mail will be able to retain its position as the rest of the market is opened and operators gain access to Royal Mail’s downstream ‘pipeline’ remains to be seen.

Staffing

 It is difficult to assess the number of people employed at Royal Mail as the Royal Mail Group no longer publishes a separate figure for this part of its business. However, there were 189,221 people employed at the end of the 2003-2004 financial year in the UK Mails and Parcels section of the Royal Mail Group. This sub-section of the Royal Mail Group includes Royal Mail and Parcelforce. Royal Mail makes up the vast majority (in previous years over 90%) of the section.



Current issues

 Royal Mail has undergone major changes recently in a bid to improve its efficiency and its financial situation as part of a three year Renewal Plan; the introduction of single daily deliveries has been a very visible example of this.

 Royal Mail has been heavily criticized in the press, by Postcomm and Postwatch, for failing to meet all 15 of its quality of service targets in the first quarter of 2004-05, its worst performance for three years. Royal Mail puts this down to the effects of operational changes it is making in deliveries, the transport network and mail centres as part of its Renewal Plan. Consequently, Royal Mail faces the prospect of fines from Postcomm and will have to pay substantial compensation to customers.

CWU Research
October 2004
RD05/02/16


Good job I initially saved it to file.
"Today’s workplace has become heartless and soulless. Employees are seen as units of labour, automatons, functionaries, objects for achieving designated tasks, and as costs to be minimised."
silverback
Posts: 166
Joined: 02 Sep 2008, 18:08
Gender: Male

Oversize packets

Post by silverback »

MEL wrote:we are being asked in our office 2 walk oversized packets to their destinations ( 2 many packets, not enough vans and no staff). i have refused this so far on grounds of health and safety etc, but was informed today by our rep that i should be doing it. Told him 2 get the dim 2 put it in writing so as 2 take all responsibility away from me for any accidents or resulting bad backs that mite happen because of this :wink: :wink: . i was just wondering if ne 1 else has had 2 deal with this type of thing b4.
If anyone has an office in which geo route has been used and has an issue with the number of packets they are being asked to deliver, this may help. When geo route calculates a walk, it calculates attendance calls (any recorded, special, or packet that requires customer contact) at 1.7% of the total number of delivery points on that walk. i.e if you have 500 delivery points you should have no more than 9 packets/recordeds/specials and that is without oversized packets. According to geo route you should have no more than this if you are to complete in 3hr 30mins.
350 delivery points = 6 packets
400 delivery points = 7 packets
450 delivery points = 8 packets
500 delivery points = 9 packets
550 delivery points = 9 packets
600 delivery points = 10 packets
650 delivery points = 11 packets
If anyone has difficulty cutting off or claiming overtime, quote these figures. The 1.7% is a parameter in the geo route program that cannot be changed. Is there any wonder its such a bag of sh*te.
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Oversize packets

Post by dvbuk55 »

silverback wrote:
MEL wrote:we are being asked in our office 2 walk oversized packets to their destinations ( 2 many packets, not enough vans and no staff). i have refused this so far on grounds of health and safety etc, but was informed today by our rep that i should be doing it. Told him 2 get the dim 2 put it in writing so as 2 take all responsibility away from me for any accidents or resulting bad backs that mite happen because of this :wink: :wink: . i was just wondering if ne 1 else has had 2 deal with this type of thing b4.
If anyone has an office in which geo route has been used and has an issue with the number of packets they are being asked to deliver, this may help. When geo route calculates a walk, it calculates attendance calls (any recorded, special, or packet that requires customer contact) at 1.7% of the total number of delivery points on that walk. i.e if you have 500 delivery points you should have no more than 9 packets/recordeds/specials and that is without oversized packets. According to geo route you should have no more than this if you are to complete in 3hr 30mins.
350 delivery points = 6 packets
400 delivery points = 7 packets
450 delivery points = 8 packets
500 delivery points = 9 packets
550 delivery points = 9 packets
600 delivery points = 10 packets
650 delivery points = 11 packets
If anyone has difficulty cutting off or claiming overtime, quote these figures. The 1.7% is a parameter in the geo route program that cannot be changed. Is there any wonder its such a bag of sh*te.
That's very interesting and certainly the first time I have seen a correlation between packets and delivery points. The odd thing is you would have thought the matrix was in reverse i.e. the more delivery points the fewer packets depending on the property type.
DGP1
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Oversize packets

Post by DGP1 »

There is a slide show from the CWU about Pegasus and that says 1.7% attendance
And the below is an answer to an Ask_Allan question.
Thank you for your email to Allan Leighton.

Allan has asked me to look into your case.

Within the Pegasus application a number of parameters come together to make
up the overall working speed expected of a postman on a delivery route. It
is important that these parameters are not assessed individually but rather
collectively. Below is a break down of how the expected walking speed is
achieved.

A speed of 6.44km/hr and a calling time of 6.6 or 9 seconds are applied to
each delivery point (address point). 6.6 seconds for address with no path
to the door and 9 seconds for address with paths leading to the door. The
calling time is the average time allowed to open and close gates to the
house, take out mail and any signed for items.


How it is made up:

Average calling time 9+6.6/2 = 7.8 seconds
Average number of delivery points per route = 450
Average call rate (which the frequency delivery point receiving mail on
each delivery route each day) is 85%
This means 382.5 of the 450 delivery points will receive mail each time the
postman goes out on a delivery round.

Typically a delivery route is about 9km long taking an average of 3.5 hours
(210mins) to complete.

Applying an average calling time of 7.8 seconds to 382.5 dps = 2983.8
seconds = 49.73mins = approximately 50 mins (for ease of illustration)
This therefore means 9km is covered in (210-50) mins = 160mins = 2 hours
40mins (2.67)

To work out the overall expected walking speed from this would

2.67=9
1 = X

X = 3.37km/hr = 2.1m/hr

It is important to note that if the expected walking speed of our postmen
and women throughout a delivery round is 6.44km/hr, they will have to cover
a total ground distance of 22.5km at the end of 3.5 hours delivery duty.
This is clearly not the case as our postmen and women cover on average 9km
on each route.

Many Thanks

Robert

Robert Brushfield-Hodges
Executive Correspondence Manager
Royal Mail; Chairman’s Office
148 Old Street; LONDON; EC1V 9HQ
Postline: 5460 2566
Email: robert.brushfield-hodges@royalmail.com
I'm preparing myself for the zombie invasion, rule number 1 - Cardio
PhilthyPhil
Posts: 1155
Joined: 23 Nov 2007, 19:15

Oversize packets

Post by PhilthyPhil »

silverback wrote:
MEL wrote: 350 delivery points = 6 packets
400 delivery points = 7 packets
450 delivery points = 8 packets
500 delivery points = 9 packets
550 delivery points = 9 packets
600 delivery points = 10 packets
650 delivery points = 11 packets
I think these numbers should actually be even lower. eg 500 delivery points at an 85% call rate means 425 delivery points called at, if 1.7% have packets that would be 7 packets.
silverback
Posts: 166
Joined: 02 Sep 2008, 18:08
Gender: Male

Oversize packets

Post by silverback »

PhilthyPhil wrote:
silverback wrote:
MEL wrote: 350 delivery points = 6 packets
400 delivery points = 7 packets
450 delivery points = 8 packets
500 delivery points = 9 packets
550 delivery points = 9 packets
600 delivery points = 10 packets
650 delivery points = 11 packets
I think these numbers should actually be even lower. eg 500 delivery points at an 85% call rate means 425 delivery points called at, if 1.7% have packets that would be 7 packets.
I am not saying these figures bear any relation to real life...just that in the geo route program thats what it calculates you should be delivering based on the TOTAL number of delivery points on a walk.
silverback
Posts: 166
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Gender: Male

Oversize packets

Post by silverback »

linkinpark wrote:silverback any chance of something we can waive in front of the dims rather than something from RMC please? Not that there is anything wrong with RMC but a bit of official paper with the respective signatorys from both RM and the CWU would be good.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
I dont know of any documentation of this. I went on the geo route 2 day training course provided by the cwu. Then in meeting with geo route planner have actually seen this parameter within the program, and it cannot be changed. Unfortunately we do not have access to this program without the planner in attendance. Anyone going through a geo route based revision can easily use this as a point of dissagreement, just by counting the packets/ recordeds/ specials on a walk on any given day...takes seconds before pulling out. By the way, I havent met a DOM that is aware of this 1.7% attendance call rate. This setting was probably accurate about 3 to 4 years ago before the growth in packet deliveries. I have done some calculations in my DO and I reckon this setting should be between 3.5 and 5%. I cannot believe RM are basing office revisions with this data woefully inaccurate and with packet deliveries one of our most profitable and growing areas of our business. Another example of inept management. These office revisions are supposed to make us work more efficiently, what a joke.
Himaggen
Posts: 993
Joined: 09 Oct 2007, 23:40

Oversize packets

Post by Himaggen »

Based on the 85% delivery points visited rule and the 1.7% 'packets|special deliveries|signed fors' rule and based upon what I'm given to take 'on average' daily, (40 items), then I should have an average of 2768 delivery points on each walk!

The average however on my float incidentally is 615 delivery points!