EMAIL AND WEB DELIVER SHARPEST BLOW TO ROYAL MAIL FORTUNES

[Night Tonic]

And Tesco reported a 2% drop in new sales today too.

[Tman]

And Tesco reported a 2% drop in new sales today too.

Don't talk silly NT, why my neighbour's cousins, brother's cat's previous owner is aTesco van boy and he has to work TWICE as hard as he did back last year, so where's your proof and logic now eh Mr 2% reduction, you don't know nothing mogadon, coffee.....management BS......I bet you're a manager too.....blah blah blah.



There you go NT, I saved 'em the trouble...

[dvbuk55]

Wow, so much information, could we lowly delivery people understand the underlying trends shown. There is no doubt that this topic has SPAWNED a great deal of response. The problem with statistical data is that in order for it to be of value the input has to be correct and there is obviously an error and I am not for moment suggesting conspiracy - no no nothing quite so convoluted - it is plain and simple - Royal Mail has lost track of traffic and relies on "trends"and "Market values" and yes dare I say it GUESSWORK and obviously from some of the posters on here they are responsible for this debacle. There has recently been a case in the press where according to data and pie charts and the head of the organisation everything in the garden was rosy, that wasn't true, but the statistics said it was and despite a tragedy those responsible maintained the lie.

[johnnyp]

Wow, so much information, could we lowly delivery people understand the underlying trends shown. There is no doubt that this topic has SPAWNED a great deal of response. The problem with statistical data is that in order for it to be of value the input has to be correct and there is obviously an error and I am not for moment suggesting conspiracy - no no nothing quite so convoluted - it is plain and simple - Royal Mail has lost track of traffic and relies on "trends"and "Market values" and yes dare I say it GUESSWORK and obviously from some of the posters on here they are responsible for this debacle. There has recently been a case in the press where according to data and pie charts and the head of the organisation everything in the garden was rosy, that wasn't true, but the statistics said it was and despite a tragedy those responsible maintained the lie.

Spot on dvbuk55 Guys in my office have been saying it for months and months since Re-engineering we doubt if traffic is being counted right at Mail Centres as we still get items mixed in with one another thus giving us incorrect traffic figures which even our Dom thinks are wrong and should be higher.

[DGP1]

And Tesco reported a 2% drop in new sales today too.

Wrong, Tesco reported a 2% rise in yearly like for like sales but that is 2% LOWER than the expected 4% rise

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7760013.stm

[Tman]

Spot on dvbuk55 Guys in my office have been saying it for months and months since Re-engineering we doubt if traffic is being counted right at Mail Centres as we still get items mixed in with one another thus giving us incorrect traffic figures which even our Dom thinks are wrong and should be higher

When it gets to your DO it's already BEEN accurately counted!

If some berk in the MC says to your DOM "here's 20k" when in reality there's 25K of items is irrelevant to this argument, because RM don't base national
volume calculations on how much is sent out to DOs, but on how much mail is processed overall.

[dvbuk55]

Spot on dvbuk55 Guys in my office have been saying it for months and months since Re-engineering we doubt if traffic is being counted right at Mail Centres as we still get items mixed in with one another thus giving us incorrect traffic figures which even our Dom things are wrong and should be higher

When it gets to your DO it's already BEEN accurately counted!

If some berk in the MC says to your DOM "here's 20k" when in reality there's 25K of items is irrelevant to this argument, because RM don't base national
volume calculations on how much is sent out to DOs, but on how much mail is processed overall.

Oh right - it's you berks at the MCs who are to blame - now we know who to blame that means its OK - mind you if it HAS been accurately counted at the MC how can the volumes be accurate if there are 25k instead of 20k - BUT whoever is doing the counting should be doing my wages - but hey there's a national volume on how much mail is processed - so it doesn't matter how much you guys are getting to deliver - well now we have the full story - the doyens and founts of all knowledge actually have no idea how much mail is arriving at DOs or, I suspect, is actually being processed nationally.

And so I feel justified in saying if you don't do it you don't KNOW and it has nothing to do with any superiority feeling, it IS a simple fact.

[DGP1]

Spot on dvbuk55 Guys in my office have been saying it for months and months since Re-engineering we doubt if traffic is being counted right at Mail Centres as we still get items mixed in with one another thus giving us incorrect traffic figures which even our Dom things are wrong and should be higher

When it gets to your DO it's already BEEN accurately counted!

If some berk in the MC says to your DOM "here's 20k" when in reality there's 25K of items is irrelevant to this argument, because RM don't base national volume calculations on how much is sent out to DOs, but on how much mail is processed overall.

You are having a laugh now What you're saying is that just because DO's receive more mail now doesn't matter because that's at odds with the national figures

Whatever mail comes in must balance with the mail going out, unless the figures are incorrect

[heapsy]

Back in 1989 to 1991, I was a part timer on the same walk. I delivered 2 bags a day. Now, 17 years later, I get 5, yes thats right, 5 bags a day, more sometimes. So how come the mail is dropping? And before anyone tries to confuse the issue with number of drops etc, I deliver to about 30 drops more NOW, than I did back then on the other walk.

[Tman]

Oh right - it's you berks at the MCs who are to blame - now we know who to blame that means its OK - mind you if it HAS been accurately counted at the MC how can the volumes be accurate if there are 25k instead of 20k

-

Two threads going down the same route simultaneously.
You need to read what's written rather than keep replying in the same fashion ad infinitum.

BUT whoever is doing the counting should be doing my wages - but hey there's a national volume on how much mail is processed - so it doesn't matter how much you guys are getting to deliver - well now we have the full story - the doyens and founts of all knowledge actually have no idea how much mail is arriving at DOs or, I suspect, is actually being processed nationally.

One more time then- we (as in RM staff) aren't processing the same amount of mail nationally as we have in the past. Fact.
DO staff will sort and deliver whatever the local MC send to them, but whether the amount of Yorks delivered to those DOs is up or down (for whatever reasons you may wish to think of) does not alter, and is not part of, the data collection process nationally.
IF you and your ten workmates had 100 Yorks of mail delivered one day, it STILL wouldn't be any indication of national mail volumes.

And so I feel justified in saying if you don't do it you don't KNOW and it has nothing to do with any superiority feeling, it IS a simple fact

That's the problem though; it's STILL blinkered "bag over the back" logic..

[Phantom]

Royal Mail must be the only postal operator not struggling to find business then. Too many ostriches in this business "I'm on deliveries so I know what I'm talking about" types - well whoopee. I suppose the situation in the states is also a figment eh.

I'm on deliveries and I know what I'm talking about too. We know what we are handling and whats being prepped and there is an increase.

[axeman]

.
One more time then- we (as in RM staff) aren't processing the same amount of mail nationally as we have in the past. Fact.
DO staff will sort and deliver whatever the local MC send to them, but whether the amount of Yorks delivered to those DOs is up or down (for whatever reasons you may wish to think of) does not alter, and is not part of, the data collection process nationally.
IF you and your ten workmates had 100 Yorks of mail delivered one day, it STILL wouldn't be any indication of national mail volumes.




thought the posters were on about deliverys not processing they aren't saying dsa has had an impact albeit slight on the processing of mail but as we all know the end game (delivering) is well up year on year........................ just listen for once instead of you utter devotion and belief to all big al and crazier bullshi*

[Tman]

thought the posters were on about deliverys not processing they aren't saying dsa has had an impact albeit slight on the processing of mail but as we all know the end game (delivering) is well up year on year

Then look at the thread header" Email and web deliver sharpest blow to Royal Mail fortunes" and then say it's about deliveries not processing.

As if the two could be separated anyway...

........................ just listen for once instead of you utter devotion and belief to all big al and crazier bullshi

You've worn all the tread off that old jibe long since. Try for something really new or original, eh?

[Sandyman]

So, as a business, it appears from what people have said on this thread,(all who know what they are talking about) RM is processing less and delivering more, mainly due to DSA. And who wimped out when negotiating with Postcomm the price RM would get per item for delivering DSA ?

You've got it! :cfo & :lfo

How much has that cost the business? How big a blow has that been to our fortunes?

At least with the Web we get plenty of traffic via Ebay, Amazon, Play.com etc etc etc.

[F0zziebear]

As stated before I am willing to be proved wrong on this and am happy to change my mind. I have nothing to gain or lose by saying volumes are up or down.

A couple of things to consider.

1. Population in the UK is still growing, so if volumes are up are they growing in line with population growth, or is the volume per head going down?
2. The No. of postmen/women has decreased significantly over the last 5-10 years. Surely the volumes per postie has at worst remained stagnant, and should in reality have increased (supposedly under improved efficiency targets). Is it possible that a DO's volumes have have declined, but the size of the walk and volume per walk and the wieght per walk has increased?

I may actually argue that the question of whether volumes are up or down is actually not that relevant. I say this because:

1. The value of an item is more important. Has much is your mail bag now worth compared to before? For example, is there now more mailsort 3 than 1 or 2? Is there more 2nd class than 1st class? However, is there more SD's than RD's or normal mail? Is there more A5 (normal) letters versus large letters (A4)? I suppose these questions are quite interesting. It is possible to construct volumes from this data (which may not reflect the complete reality) but revenue is what is key here, as that is what pays people's wages.

Just respoding to someone else's thoughts regarding what the hell this government and their soldiers (Alan & Al) were thinking. The government expected a similar liberalisation to those on the continent. So they wanted RM to be reconfigured along Deutscheposts lines, where they completely modernised the processing centres, went to bagless systems, reduced staff numbers etc.... They also expected at least 20% of all mail to be collected, processed and delivered by competitors.

In reality the following has happened: RM has stifled competition through clever DSA pricing that allows enough profit from DSA to keep the regulator and competitors satisfied (though not happy) but not enough to encourage them to setup E2E. If you think the current situation is bad think what it might have been if that mail never touched the RM system?
The government, regulators and competition thought that they could setup simple regional mail businesses, but based their understanding on the European experience and did not relaise that the UK is setup differently.

Finally, I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on mail volumes again (as in previous years when this debate has arisen). I am still of the opinion that overall mail volumes are down, but accept that there is plenty of noise in terms of:

Reduction in Nos. of delivery rounds
Change in profile of mail
An unsatisfactory way of measuring mail to everyone's satisfaction
DSA and impact on volumes
Weight of mail

F0zz