Are Sorting Machines Making the Postman Sick

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 26 Nov 2008, 08:47

Then why are the machines just in open space ? no extractors are present and no filtration system is in sight if as you say it's safe by who's standards ?
there is simply no way the airbourne dust is removed efficently other than by means of circulation and through the open doors etc .
If there were real concerns from royal fail to protect it's 'people' then they would have an extraction system above every machine in the mail centres as a precautionary measure this proves they care more about cost than the health of it's 'people'

It's "risk assessment" again. The old equation of how long the workers are exposed to the dust, how toxic is the dust, how much dust accumulates over a given period of time, etc etc.

There was a London office (now gone) where they insisted on blowing the machinery once a week, and if the rumours were to be believed, it took an employee's suspension to finally stop this mushroom cloud being released into the atmosphere.

It's worth bearing in mind that "our" machines are German, French, American and Japanese, and are installed similarly in the "home" countries, so any failing wouldn't be attributable to RM anyway.

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » 26 Nov 2008, 10:04

Dust is on the mail not the machines or do you wipe every item down with a cloth? i suppose that would give managers something to do!

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 26 Nov 2008, 10:48

Phantom wrote:Dust is on the mail not the machines or do you wipe every item down with a cloth? i suppose that would give managers something to do!

No, the dust is created, by the friction of the Mail, going through the machines. That's why it's hazardous: It's composed primarily of paper fibres. Cleaning each item of mail, would be about as useful as cleaning the brake pads on your car. In an attempt to eliminate brake dust. In other words: totally pointless.

They clean the machines, in order to reduce the build up of dust. Which in turn, reduces the quantity of dust, which builds up in the atmosphere. The fact that Posties who start off fit and healthy, are suffering from the effects in the USPS. But we have posties with pre-existing Respitory problems, who appear to be unaffected. Says a lot about the cleaning regime.

We used to have problems with the dust building up in the RDCs, a decade ago. It reached the point, where you often saw people wearing masks, to protect themselves. Now, we have "high-level cleans" periodically. To stop the dust building up in the areas, which can't be reached without cherypickers. Because it was previously creating clouds of the stuff, whenever it was disturbed (e.g. when we had a lightbulb replaced). We also have the air quality checked periodically. As a result: we no longer end up with black stains on our hankies, by the end of a Shift. You rarely see anyone with a face mask. And as far as I'm aware, it's been years since anyone suffered from a respitory problem related to the dust.

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » 26 Nov 2008, 11:57

andy2007 wrote:
Phantom wrote:Dust is on the mail not the machines or do you wipe every item down with a cloth? i suppose that would give managers something to do!
No, the dust is created, by the friction of the Mail, going through the machines. That's why it's hazardous: It's composed primarily of paper fibres. Cleaning each item of mail, would be about as useful as cleaning the brake pads on your car. In an attempt to eliminate brake dust. In other words: totally pointless.

They clean the machines, in order to reduce the build up of dust. Which in turn, reduces the quantity of dust, which builds up in the atmosphere. The fact that Posties who start off fit and healthy, are suffering from the effects in the USPS. But we have posties with pre-existing Respitory problems, who appear to be unaffected. Says a lot about the cleaning regime.

We used to have problems with the dust building up in the RDCs, a decade ago. It reached the point, where you often saw people wearing masks, to protect themselves. Now, we have "high-level cleans" periodically. To stop the dust building up in the areas, which can't be reached without cherypickers. Because it was previously creating clouds of the stuff, whenever it was disturbed (e.g. when we had a lightbulb replaced). We also have the air quality checked periodically. As a result: we no longer end up with black stains on our hankies, by the end of a Shift. You rarely see anyone with a face mask. And as far as I'm aware, it's been years since anyone suffered from a respitory problem related to the dust.

No dust is attracted to paper and is in the air all the time, how do you explain dust on manual sorted items? From floating about in the bulk mailers distribution centres to your kitchen table.

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 26 Nov 2008, 12:51

Phantom wrote:
andy2007 wrote:
Phantom wrote:Dust is on the mail not the machines or do you wipe every item down with a cloth? i suppose that would give managers something to do!
No, the dust is created, by the friction of the Mail, going through the machines. That's why it's hazardous: It's composed primarily of paper fibres. Cleaning each item of mail, would be about as useful as cleaning the brake pads on your car. In an attempt to eliminate brake dust. In other words: totally pointless.

They clean the machines, in order to reduce the build up of dust. Which in turn, reduces the quantity of dust, which builds up in the atmosphere. The fact that Posties who start off fit and healthy, are suffering from the effects in the USPS. But we have posties with pre-existing Respitory problems, who appear to be unaffected. Says a lot about the cleaning regime.

We used to have problems with the dust building up in the RDCs, a decade ago. It reached the point, where you often saw people wearing masks, to protect themselves. Now, we have "high-level cleans" periodically. To stop the dust building up in the areas, which can't be reached without cherypickers. Because it was previously creating clouds of the stuff, whenever it was disturbed (e.g. when we had a lightbulb replaced). We also have the air quality checked periodically. As a result: we no longer end up with black stains on our hankies, by the end of a Shift. You rarely see anyone with a face mask. And as far as I'm aware, it's been years since anyone suffered from a respitory problem related to the dust.
No dust is attracted to paper and is in the air all the time, how do you explain dust on manual sorted items? From floating about in the bulk mailers distribution centres to your kitchen table.

You're right about dust not being attracted to the Mail. The hazardous dust coming from the machines, is created by the friction on the paper. So rather than the normal (harmless) dust which has to be removed from items in your Home. It is actually paper fibres, which people are inhaling. I'm not sure precisely what it was in the dust at the RDCs, which was hazardous. But we use FLTs, Scuds, ( both of which use brake pads) a large battery charging area, etc., etc.. So there are numerous possible sources. We're not talking about Household dust here.

Dust is simply unwanted airbourne particles, which eventually settle. The composition of the dust, is dependant on the environment in which it is created. And the potential risks, are dependant on the concentration in the Air you breathe.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 27 Nov 2008, 23:16

Never really occurred to me before, but if you need to clean the machines three times a day to keep them working, thats lots of dust,and you say no filtration system?
That must mean a lot of inhaled paper dust .
Could anyone point me in the right direction for RM air quality checks,all large workplaces have them?
Also does anyone know if these checks involve chemical analysis of the airborne pollutants?
Only asking cos I do know that paper manufacture involves the use of chemicals that are at least XN hazard rated and have proven:carcinogenic; mutanagenic;irreversible health effects,etc. Stuff like dioxins and furans.Now normally you wouldn't think about it ,but stopping plant three times a day to get rid of it ? for much of your working life?

So a general request to any CWU/RM safety bods out there just what is the typical chemical composition of the dust pollution in your average MC?

axeman · Post by **axeman** » 27 Nov 2008, 23:24

Bring on t..m.. he says it's ok !!! he holds his screwdriver in the air and if anything sticks to it it's out with the old hover

just how long does it take for a hover to suck up zillions of cubic feet of air

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 27 Nov 2008, 23:38

No seriously though ,what is the chemical make up of this dust MC workers inhale all day every working day. Theres Biocides ;flocculants ;anti foaming agents ;wetting agents;wet strength agents;fungicides;chlorine;bleaching agents etc,not to mention surface treatments and whatever dyes.
I thought it was just paper

There must be some monitoring going on? Some of this stuff causes liver failure at minute parts per million

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 28 Nov 2008, 08:00

BELIAL wrote:No seriously though ,what is the chemical make up of this dust MC workers inhale all day every working day. Theres Biocides ;flocculants ;anti foaming agents ;wetting agents;wet strength agents;fungicides;chlorine;bleaching agents etc,not to mention surface treatments and whatever dyes.
I thought it was just paper
There must be some monitoring going on? Some of this stuff causes liver failure at minute parts per million

I don't have access to the results, other than a risk level (low). And as I work in an RDC, it would be a different composition anyway. But I do know 2 things:
1) The checks take place.
2) Since we had the checks, and the improved efforts to stop the dust building up. There has been a major improvement.

I assume, that the cleaning of the machines in the MCs, is as well thought out. But I can't be sure.

But to give you an idea: They clear the dust wih Vacum Cleaners, which presumably have filters. Which would explain the vastly improved Air quality.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 28 Nov 2008, 08:14

axeman wrote:Bring on t..m.. he says it's ok !!! he holds his screwdriver in the air and if anything sticks to it it's out with the old hover just how long does it take for a hover to suck up zillions of cubic feet of air

To the usual standard Agent Yorkie, but "hovers" actually clean up dust rather than filter "zillions" of cubic feet of air, and usually it's the TPM posties who decide when it needs "hovering" out and then get going on it.
Got to earn that eighteen quid somehow...

axeman · Post by **axeman** » 28 Nov 2008, 17:34

never done any hovering ? you suck but what comes out back of hover ? well i think you'll find in order to suck you have to blow

zedrac · Post by **zedrac** » 28 Nov 2008, 19:20

axeman wrote:

That's your opinion, but it's wrong, I'm afraid. RM and H&S rules and regs are quite specific regarding airborne dust and it's removal.[/quote]

Then why are the machines just in open space ? no extractors are present and no filtration system is in sight if as you say it's safe by who's standards ?
there is simply no way the airbourne dust is removed efficently other than by means of circulation and through the open doors etc .
If there were real concerns from royal fail to protect it's 'people' then they would have an extraction system above every machine in the mail centres as a precautionary measure this proves they care more about cost than the health of it's 'people'[/quote]

Yeah why do they not make posties wear gloves to protect them form the nasty bacteria on letter boxes and respiritory protection to protect them from all the paritcles from vehicle fumes in city centres

axeman · Post by **axeman** » 28 Nov 2008, 19:37

Ah another pra* why oh why do you see cyclists in and around or great square mile wearing face masks ....no they have not all been to see phantom of the opera could it be protection from airbourne substances ?
theres a guy i know who's had to come off deliverys because years of treading the beat in town areas have given him astma certified by doctors to be a contributary cause if not the main cause.
and thats in open space just because you cant see it it does not mean it doesn't exist i personaly would love to see the data royal fail have correlated on this very subject more selective than purposeful i dare say the machines should have extraction systems and a filtration system as they operate not just a reliance on good luck but hey this is royal fail did you expect anything different
air quality is coming to the front in our daily lives remember the olympics not so long ago so you'd have an inkling as to the results of airbourne polution albeit on a different scale

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 28 Nov 2008, 19:42

Collection posties are given gloves if the wish to use them. Though this is to stop sharps.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 28 Nov 2008, 21:28

andy2007 wrote:
BELIAL wrote:No seriously though ,what is the chemical make up of this dust MC workers inhale all day every working day. Theres Biocides ;flocculants ;anti foaming agents ;wetting agents;wet strength agents;fungicides;chlorine;bleaching agents etc,not to mention surface treatments and whatever dyes.
I thought it was just paper
There must be some monitoring going on? Some of this stuff causes liver failure at minute parts per million
I don't have access to the results, other than a risk level (low). And as I work in an RDC, it would be a different composition anyway. But I do know 2 things:
1) The checks take place.
2) Since we had the checks, and the improved efforts to stop the dust building up. There has been a major improvement.

I assume, that the cleaning of the machines in the MCs, is as well thought out. But I can't be sure.

But to give you an idea: They clear the dust wih Vacum Cleaners, which presumably have filters. Which would explain the vastly improved Air quality.

Thanks Andy, yes checks are legally required but I was more concerned with the precise nature of the checks. Are they simply airborne particulate density and size checks or do they include substance identification checks as well? See what I mean ,you could probably get away with inhaling organic flour dust for ten years at 20ppm but you wouldn't want to try the same with Diphenyl's.
Point 2 is interesting ,why the major clean up effort ,surely checks occur at regular intervals and safe operating methods are in place. What has changed to require "major improvement"?
The vacuum cleaner bit is rather alarming ,specially 3x a day in MC's,you've been breathing that stuff in at much greater rate than it settles out at