BNP

[andy2007]

To be fair. Not all BNP Members are like that. Some of them are actually taken in by the hype and spin.

But regardless of how disgusting we may feel their views are. They are just as entitled to them as us. Obviously, we need to challenge such abhorrant views. But we should be doing so, with reasoned arguments, and facts. Not by attempting to ostracise them, or worse, resorting to violence.

That's how the more extreme members of the BNP, and other similar organisations operate. Why descend to their level?

But please remember: Just because someone's a member of BNP, it doesn't mean that they are extremists, like the ones on Red Watch,etc.. Just bear that in mind, before going off half cocked, with anyone on that list. Try a little diplomacy with them. Otherwise, how do you ever expect them to change their attitudes?

[norbert]

Oh almost forgot here's one for Nick and his pals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8wHorSqrU&NR=1
makes me almost want to buy her records.Gawd bless you Lilly

there's a " response " to that on Great White Records on You Tube ( We're not a racist party - it's hardly going to be a hip - hop label ) - it's not exactly Lennon / McCartney .

Apparently Old Glass Eye writes English Folk songs to be sold on Great White Records or through Exacilbour

Worst band were Skrewdriver - good night out shouting Sieg Heil and doing Hitler Salutes - sing- along with Combat 18

[DGP1]

Is that the real Stig

Some say the only book he's every read is Mein Kempf and that he's friends with Prince Harry
He's not the Stig, he's the Stigs racist brother

[andy2007]

Is that the real Stig

Some say the only book he's every read is Mein Kempf and that he's friends with Prince Harry
He's not the Stig, he's the Stigs racist brother

[norbert]

Oh almost forgot here's one for Nick and his pals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8wHorSqrU&NR=1
makes me almost want to buy her records.Gawd bless you Lilly

there's a " response " to that on Great White Records on You Tube ( We're not a racist party - it's hardly going to be a hip - hop label ) - it's not exactly Lennon / McCartney .

Lily Allen does the same silly things like going out boozing , silly clothes ; showing her knickers etc just like thousands of girls her age ; every Friday or Saturday night - as somebody commented on You Tube - the BNP song was full of hate - he rose too quickly to the bait and spoiled any points that he may well of had .

I don't think we're going down to the BNP's level , that lady interviewing Griffin on that film was a wily old pro and let Griffin make a prat of himself , just like some of his members do

Apparently Old Glass Eye writes English Folk songs to be sold on Great White Records or through Exacilbour

Worst band were Skrewdriver - good night out shouting Sieg Heil and doing Hitler Salutes - sing- along with Combat 18

[booboo]

Has anyone stopped and thought that the BNP might have actually posted the list themselves. Think about it, a member agrees to be a fall guy and when the police catch up to them they claim to be a "disgruntled ex-member" who was put up to it by some "leftie" group.

All the while Nick and the boys are trying to play the victim card saying it's awful that some professions want their members banned and how they are now being threatened because people know who they are. However, the claims by one of their councillors has made me suspicious. Michael Coleman, one of their councillors here in sunny Stoke on Trent has been whining that he's suddenly started receiving threats since the list was published. One problem, his details have actually been publicly available on the City Council website (like all councillors) since he became a councillor 3-4 years ago so it's unlikely people didn't know his details until the list was published - bit fishy to me and sounds like they are trying to cultivate some sort of victim status.

The other reason I would suggest it was an inside job is the party's security. Out of all the major political parties they have the tightest security. Not only that but the party no.2 Simon Darby is an IT specialist by trade so their computer security is bound to be quite tight. They've tried blaming it on the Sadie Graham split at the end of last year but that allegation has been undermined by some of the names being members who have joined since. So my money's on the Police tracing it to the "disgruntled ex-party member".

Oh, and they're not the 4th largest party either. UKIP has more members but only performs well at EU elections so their demand for EU withdrawal would logically lead to their demise.

[norbert]

Has anyone stopped and thought that the BNP might have actually posted the list themselves. Think about it, a member agrees to be a fall guy and when the police catch up to them they claim to be a "disgruntled ex-member" who was put up to it by some "leftie" group.

All the while Nick and the boys are trying to play the victim card saying it's awful that some professions want their members banned and how they are now being threatened because people know who they are. However, the claims by one of their councillors has made me suspicious. Michael Coleman, one of their councillors here in sunny Stoke on Trent has been whining that he's suddenly started receiving threats since the list was published. One problem, his details have actually been publicly available on the City Council website (like all councillors) since he became a councillor 3-4 years ago so it's unlikely people didn't know his details until the list was published - bit fishy to me and sounds like they are trying to cultivate some sort of victim status.

The other reason I would suggest it was an inside job is the party's security. Out of all the major political parties they have the tightest security. Not only that but the party no.2 Simon Darby is an IT specialist by trade so their computer security is bound to be quite tight. They've tried blaming it on the Sadie Graham split at the end of last year but that allegation has been undermined by some of the names being members who have joined since. So my money's on the Police tracing it to the "disgruntled ex-party member".

Oh, and they're not the 4th largest party either. UKIP has more members but only performs well at EU elections so their demand for EU withdrawal would logically lead to their demise.

I do know of a CWU Branch Secretary who was or still is Labour Town mayor and at a meeting we heard some jaw - dropping stuff as to how the BNP operate - also before anyone get's on my back about New Labour ( I left years ago re :lfo and the Postal Services Act 2000 ) , I do know a lot of prominent local politicians and local realpolitik in the constituency Labour Party and /or Town Hall level is a lot different from Millbank and the Parliamentary Labour Party .

People suspect that the membership level is inflated - something to do with required percentages of the whole membership for a possible challenge to Griffin's Leadership - let's just say that they & Griffin in particular , can be very , very devious ?

The BNP is supposed to be absolutely paranoid about security , there's talk of Griffin having a virtual bodyguard elite - SS style - best programme was the BBC " The Secret Agent " - Griffin got that christian/right group that picketed the Jerry Springer musical to defend him - I think Griffin knew exactly what he was doing with that Islam - " A wicked faith " remark - never mind all that " I could get Prison for this " B/S

[booboo]

Yeah Norbert, I forgot to mention that the list does contain the names of alot of ex-members, some of whom left the party over four years ago. So I think you could be onto something there. It raises the possibility that it could have been leaked by members unhappy with Griffin as leader and this their way of showing that he's distorted the membership numbers so that a leadership challenge is easily staved off so he stays in power. Good point.

[norbert]

Yeah Norbert, I forgot to mention that the list does contain the names of alot of ex-members, some of whom left the party over four years ago. So I think you could be onto something there. It raises the possibility that it could have been leaked by members unhappy with Griffin as leader and this their way of showing that he's distorted the membership numbers so that a leadership challenge is easily staved off so he stays in power. Good point.

On You Tube comments - the frequent complaint is " I left as I didn't want to pay Griffin's wages but I'm still on the list " - the other complaint is that it's undemocratic and dictatorial , everything revolving round Griffin and his chosen henchmen .

That sort of people don't do really do democracy , BNP Councillors tend to end up in " Private Eye " magazine's " Rotten Boroughs " - there's been instances when they've been too thick and slow to follow Town Hall Debates like in Barking , one didn't even know what to abstain was ! , attendance records are poor , case work records on bread and butter stuff for residents stuff are poor - either a Councillor is good or he or she isn't - doesn't necessarily matter whether they are Red , Yellow or Blue

It's all very well stirring things up against Muslims in particular & promising this and that but the reality is a different matter altogether . There's some good films about ex Combat 18 , BNP & NF activists acting as double agents for Searchlight - there is disaffected Asian Youths who due to fundamentalism and radicalism are just as up for trouble as the far right - hence the riots . the BNP is a relatively small party and it only has the resources to stir things up where the ground is fertile like in Burnley , Oldham & Keighley .

They had Collett on TV , years ago , Secret life of a Nazi , I think it was called - he insisted on being filmed shirtless or with just a towel round him or even naked - He wasn't exactly David Beckham or Mel Gibson - nor was the programme likely to appeal en-masse to swooning women - so it seemed a bit homo-erotic - the Producer found it all very strange given the BNP's stance on homosexuality - he could have been or still is - a very confused and mixed up young man ? - or it may be the tendency of some on the political extremes to externalise or politicize possible " personal issues " - hence the twisted and strange ideas

[booboo]

For the ineptitude of BNP councillors try their first one here in sunny Stoke. A guy called Steve Batkin who admitted most council business went over his head and he didn't even know what abstain meant.

On the other hand they had a very good councillor locally called Mark Leat who had the party whip withdrawn in mysterious and dubious circumstances. The reasons never really came out but there's stories of personal antagonism between him and Alby Walker, their chair on the council, and that it was a combination of Leat wanting that job, personal dislike between the two and that Leat was actually too moderate for the party. By moderate I would say that like alot people he wanted to see increased control on current and future immigration but disagreed with the party on repatriation of people born and bred here that don't fit their racial profile.

This is how they've gained support in the last decade:
1)they've ditched overt anti-Semitism because people equate it with Nazism, would think they were a bunch of loonies, and there's always the possibility of reprisal from the Israelis (they threatened it in Germany in the early 90s and were also rumoured to be planning to kill Le Pen).
2) they've toned down talk of repatriation because it's obvious most of the voting public have no problem with the majority of 2nd generation and longer immigrants and voters are savvy enough to realise that it would turn us into an international pariah.
3) they've focused on new immigration and Islamophobia which are in tune with public opinion and have brought increased support. However, anybody that reads party material or speaks to long standing party members will always see that 1 & 2 are still core values of the party, so it's all just spin.

Hate to say it but when the Tories get re-elected this lot will disappear because it's the tabloid hysteria over asylum and immigration to undermine a Labour govt that has gained them popularity. Mail and the Express won't undermine a Tory govt and all the hysteria will die away.

[borders]

excellent insight into the BNP , Booboo and Norbert thanks.

[norbert]

excellent insight into the BNP , Booboo and Norbert thanks.

I remember Howard trying a Australian idea called Dog - Whistle in 2005 over Immigration etc , you would get stuff stirred up by the likes of The Sun , it works with some but those rants in the likes of The Daily Mail can put people off and/ or bore / alienate people .

Like or loathe Thatcher , in the 80's she and her party tried to neutralize the NF , she'd suggest the German Guest Worker idea but they also didn't want to be associated with too loony ideas either - in any case the wild Falklands card worked for her - so they could push jingoism as much as they liked .
I believe the BNP tried to infiltrate the Tory Party - the idea was Griffin's to try and turn the party back to pre Enoch Powell " Rivers of Blood " days .

Apparently when Enoch made that speech , Heath was Prime Minister , as soon as he heard about it , he said I want him on the phone now ! , he was told he wasn't as many were not back in the 60's - so Heath said get his agent who was on the phone - and Powell was sacked on the spot .
Heath was more the old fashioned Shire Tory - also he'd actually met some Senior Nazis at do's etc before WW2 and was high up in the Navy during the War , basically he didn't want to go any way near down that road again .

[Yahoorsur]

'Heath was Prime Minister , as soon as he heard about it , he said I want him on the phone now ! , he was told he wasn't as many were not back in the 60's - so Heath said get his agent who was on the phone - and Powell was sacked on the spot .
Heath was more the old fashioned Shire Tory - also he'd actually met some Senior Nazis at do's etc before WW2 and was high up in the Navy during the War , basically he didn't want to go any way near down that road again .'


I think Heath was in the army,but without Googling It I could'nt be sure,
But it's amazing how time gives you perspective,'when I were a lad' I remember the miners strikes of 72 and 74,helping my dad chop wood up for the fires on the picket line at Townhill power station,getting our meals at the miners Institute,my gran helped cook them,and Heaths name was not one to be mentioned without spitting on the ground,but when you look at his record both political and in the war, he was a decent and honourable man.He was in many regards the very embodiment of One Nation Toryism.however at the time he was the deil incarnate to my family and friends.As I say time gives a certain perspective to events.

[norbert]

'Heath was Prime Minister , as soon as he heard about it , he said I want him on the phone now ! , he was told he wasn't as many were not back in the 60's - so Heath said get his agent who was on the phone - and Powell was sacked on the spot .
Heath was more the old fashioned Shire Tory - also he'd actually met some Senior Nazis at do's etc before WW2 and was high up in the Navy during the War , basically he didn't want to go any way near down that road again .'


I think Heath was in the army,but without Googling It I could'nt be sure,
But it's amazing how time gives you perspective,'when I were a lad' I remember the miners strikes of 72 and 74,helping my dad chop wood up for the fires on the picket line at Townhill power station,getting our meals at the miners Institute,my gran helped cook them,and Heaths name was not one to be mentioned without spitting on the ground,but when you look at his record both political and in the war, he was a decent and honourable man.He was in many regards the very embodiment of One Nation Toryism.however at the time he was the deil incarnate to my family and friends.As I say time gives a certain perspective to events.

I think Heath tried the monetarism idea and there was fit - ups for the likes of the Shrewsbury 3 people like Ricky Tomlinson - he went to the polls on who runs this country - me or the miners and it backfired - Thatcher did try the same idea again - she could use the Winter of Discontent thing to justify it - prior to that the likes of Keith Josepth and her were thought to be loony right - you could also say that she was a very vindictive woman and despite her differences with Ted Heath - she wanted revenge - she did have a bit of luck in her career - even Callaghan said he'd have liked to have had a war - you could also argue that Thatcher had a taste of her own medicine in the "coup " , the poll tax was a step too far and they knew they'd to get rid of her to save their own skins for a while .

[Lounge Lizard]

excellent insight into the BNP , Booboo and Norbert thanks.

I remember Howard trying a Australian idea called Dog - Whistle in 2005 over Immigration etc , you would get stuff stirred up by the likes of The Sun , it works with some but those rants in the likes of The Daily Mail can put people off and/ or bore / alienate people .

Like or loathe Thatcher , in the 80's she and her party tried to neutralize the NF , she'd suggest the German Guest Worker idea but they also didn't want to be associated with too loony ideas either - in any case the wild Falklands card worked for her - so they could push jingoism as much as they liked .
I believe the BNP tried to infiltrate the Tory Party - the idea was Griffin's to try and turn the party back to pre Enoch Powell " Rivers of Blood " days .

Apparently when Enoch made that speech , Heath was Prime Minister , as soon as he heard about it , he said I want him on the phone now ! , he was told he wasn't as many were not back in the 60's - so Heath said get his agent who was on the phone - and Powell was sacked on the spot .
Heath was more the old fashioned Shire Tory - also he'd actually met some Senior Nazis at do's etc before WW2 and was high up in the Navy during the War , basically he didn't want to go any way near down that road again .

Enoch Powell made that speech in 1968 and Edward Heath wasn't Prime Minister until 1970.
Edward Heath had visited Germany before the war and actually witnessed a Nuremberg Rally, this being a factor in him being so pro-European to try to avoid such conflict in future.