Stage 2 appeal

Post by **drevil1969uk** » 09 Oct 2008, 14:52

@bogstandard can i also write down what was said as in what was mentioned with regards to appealing stage 2?

bogstandard · Post by **bogstandard** » 10 Oct 2008, 08:06

you can put in what you want really, whatever you feel is relevant to your case.
I would not pin everything on what they said, the business will only say the manager got it wrong.
On the other hand if you persued this at the meeting and the manager was adamant then, well who knows.
If they don't know what they're doing and they issue, issue, issue then you could take out a greivance against them based on their lack of knowledge and understanding of the fundementals of the relevant codes, what else are they not aware of. How many more people have they needlessly potentially caused undue stress ect.... due to their lack of understanding ?
Alternatively if they dont issue cause they dont know what they're doing why rock the boat.

Post by **drevil1969uk** » 10 Oct 2008, 14:50

@bogstandrd, on another of my posts!!?? cheers for your help. I have been hounded for the reply which is going back to them today with an amendment of when it was said i could appeal and an appeal letter attached. Wont go anywhere i dont think but do the line managers issue these anymore or are they being told what to do?

Stormproof · Post by **Stormproof** » 12 Oct 2008, 18:13

I've been back about 6 weeks now and I know another Stage 3 has come through for me, how long do they make you sweat before going into the interview? The 2 other Stage 3 interviews I have had have been dealt with within a couple of weeks of me returning to work. Does the DOM have to act on a Stage 3 coming through? Working in Callers with no support and constantly being abused by customers sent me into depression, do you think RM are thinking twice about issuing the stage? I was told last week there will be no way I would ever work in Callers again even in an emergency, is this RM admitting they were somewhat responsible for causing my depression?

Post by **dvbuk55** » 12 Oct 2008, 18:20

k66yla wrote:I've been back about 6 weeks now and I know another Stage 3 has come through for me, how long do they make you sweat before going into the interview? The 2 other Stage 3 interviews I have had have been dealt with within a couple of weeks of me returning to work. Does the DOM have to act on a Stage 3 coming through? Working in Callers with no support and constantly being abused by customers sent me into depression, do you think RM are thinking twice about issuing the stage? I was told last week there will be no way I would ever work in Callers again even in an emergency, is this RM admitting they were somewhat responsible for causing my depression?

TBH I think you've been lucky to survive 2 stage 3s in the present climate I would have expected the heave ho and fight it out on a tribunal, hoping they would get away with it which they usually do of course.

brothermagrew · Post by **brothermagrew** » 13 Oct 2008, 20:34

dvbuk55 wrote:
k66yla wrote:I've been back about 6 weeks now and I know another Stage 3 has come through for me, how long do they make you sweat before going into the interview? The 2 other Stage 3 interviews I have had have been dealt with within a couple of weeks of me returning to work. Does the DOM have to act on a Stage 3 coming through? Working in Callers with no support and constantly being abused by customers sent me into depression, do you think RM are thinking twice about issuing the stage? I was told last week there will be no way I would ever work in Callers again even in an emergency, is this RM admitting they were somewhat responsible for causing my depression?
TBH I think you've been lucky to survive 2 stage 3s in the present climate I would have expected the heave ho and fight it out on a tribunal, hoping they would get away with it which they usually do of course.

dvbuk55

In the present climate the tide seems to be changing, as I see it on reading other brother and sister posts it appears to be 4/4 in our favour.

the one · Post by **the one** » 13 Oct 2008, 21:04

drevil1969uk wrote:cheers got a few replies! this was a second stage sickness. I have a cwu rep who was present in the meeting and it was said more than once by the manager giving me my stage that i could appeal if he was to give the stage.
Now stage one was issued a month before i returned to work even tho i was off for work related stress (a manager being a dick and useless, been made up since, about right i say)

What im asking i guess really is, is it enough that me and my rep heard him say it? and if so is that enough to get it overturned based on incompetence perhaps? It was the same manager that gave me my first stage while i was off and in the knowledge that i couldnt come into work for the meeting (doctors advice) i was recommended to either leave it or put in a grievence to the management with regards to the stage 1 but as i got on with him, didnt want any more problems and in my right mind didnt think they would give me a stage 2 i left it.

I have been move to another area since but that manager isnt qualified to give me a stage so it was my old manager that gave the interview also, what im saying also is put in a grievence against this manager now? also appeal and say that the manager shouldnt of took it and bearing in mind he gave first one unfairly he was always bound to do the same with the second stage?

THE BEST WAY OF SUCCEEDING IS THROUGH THE GRIEVANCE PROCIDURE IT HAPPEND TO ME LAST YEAR,BUT I'M GETTING LOADS OF HASSLES HARRASMENT'S YOU NAME IT I'M GETTING IT,

Post by **drevil1969uk** » 14 Oct 2008, 00:19

@the one does that mean i leave it im screwed or challenge it and im screwed?

@everyone/anyone I sent in an appeal letter with regards to my stage 2 can anyone tell me where it was sent and what the process is? i want to find out if they recieved my appeal letter at wherever it was sent.

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 07 Nov 2008, 10:01

drevil1969uk wrote:Can anyone tell me if you can appeal at this stage?

If yes think i have grounds, if not then can i ask for another interview as i was told i could appeal against a stage 2 (isnt on paper but had a cwu rep present and he heard the manager say i could do so more than once)

Use the individual grievance procedure, state exactly why you are making the grievance and hand appendix 1 to your delivery office manager. your (dom) will have to interview you regarding your grievance and if you are still not convinced that your case has not been taken seriously, then complete appendix 2 and sent it of to ER Operations, Rugby.... good luck buddy

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 07 Nov 2008, 15:12

wolfie citizen smith wrote:
drevil1969uk wrote:Can anyone tell me if you can appeal at this stage?

If yes think i have grounds, if not then can i ask for another interview as i was told i could appeal against a stage 2 (isnt on paper but had a cwu rep present and he heard the manager say i could do so more than once)
Use the individual grievance procedure, state exactly why you are making the grievance and hand appendix 1 to your delivery office manager. your (dom) will have to interview you regarding your grievance and if you are still not convinced that your case has not been taken seriously, then complete appendix 2 and sent it of to ER Operations, Rugby.... good luck buddy

you need to have things in Black & White on paper for a later date - you might well be in trouble again and RM will do anything to wriggle out of things - even using technicalities and smart alec solicitors - look at that poor bloke they hounded out of the door with a serious skin complaint which meant a second appeal tribunal - even the ATOS MO wouldn't side with RM as he didn't want to be cited in Court etc and carry the can for RM .

bogstandard · Post by **bogstandard** » 12 Nov 2008, 10:56

think he got his fingers burnt

bogstandard · Post by **bogstandard** » 12 Nov 2008, 10:56

i know.
i know.
Not in the least bit helpful, my apologies.

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 12 Nov 2008, 11:10

Think the story was that he had a bad skin complaint and an allergy to the Uniform - the ATOS Medical Officer strongly recommended twice ( this will probably be the Business Referral Form ) that RM medically retire him and to be mindful of the DDA act in case of a Industrial Tribunal action .

The Female DOM ( probably had watched too many episodes of the Apprentice ? ) stated that his reasons for absence were unacceptable & he didn't meet RM's conditions for Medical Retirement-

He took RM to Industrial Tribunal - however RM's Solicitors stated he hadn't appealed and/or hadn't appealed properly over his sacking - so the Tribunal Chairman threw the case out or the Postman lost that case on a technicality .

He appealed against the Tribunal's ruling and took RM to the Court of Appeal , the judge said the original Tribunal Chairman was in the wrong , RM's argument was nonsense and the thrust of the case was the DOM chose to take no notice of the ATOS Medical Officer .

The Citizens Advice Bureau represented him , RM had to pay a settlement in five figures . I admire him as the skin condition possibly getting worse and the stress over fighting RM over basically two tribunals which lasted over a year must have been terrible . :lfo :cfo

RM are not popular amongst appeal judges and some Tribunal Panels as they are seen to be too judgemental , inflexible and only seeing things in Black & White terms - their arrogance can also be their Achilles Heel - it's all about being feisty & sharp enough to exploit that

bogstandard · Post by **bogstandard** » 12 Nov 2008, 11:25

To coin a much trotted out phrase "common sence has prevailed"
well done to the judge who saw the point that was trying to be made, and not the mud, that RM's very well paid legal team throw about.

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 26 Nov 2008, 11:17

rockytony67 wrote:Unfortunly you can't reverse a stage 1 or stage 2, if you take out a grievance and it is found against the manager it will make no difference to the stage, all you will get is an apology and a promise that the manager will be retrained on the attendance procedure(which he won't) it's only if it gets to stage 3 that these things will help you, as Brothermagrew says notes should be taking at all formal meetings, unfortnely many managers now do not bother, if you haven't got any notes you should take out a grievance, it may not help you now but it could in the future.

I was under the impression that if you were given a stage warning regarding an accident on duty, you could then put a grievance against the investigating manager and if the grievance was upheld, the stage warning would be removed from your attendance record!

Otherwise would you not be in a posistion to put a bullying & harassment (victimisation) complaint form in for unfair treatment / stress, pain and unnecessary suffering to an employee relating to there attendance record due to managers decission to issue a stage warning on the grounds of?