Sick certificates.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 29 May 2007, 13:00

Are theses worth anything,they seem to be ignored in sick stage warnings.
If a quack signs you off then surely that's the end of the matter to a certain extent.
Whats the drill for them.

And yes,i've just been signed off for a week,this will be my second week off with a bad back.

Post by **pcb** » 29 May 2007, 13:32

self certificate lasts for 7 days and you can get them from your doctor. After that you will need a doctors certificate until you return to work. Please be in no doubt that Royal Mail do not dispute the fact that you are unwell just that you have not returned within the set time as stated in the attendance procedure. With Crozier and Leighton in charge the Attendance procedure is now a good way of getting rid of overpriced and underworked staff.
If you are placed on a stage and believe that the line manager has not taken into account all information then you are entitled to put a greivance in against the said manager on the basis that he/she has not followed the correct procedure.
You cannot appeal against the decision but you can ensure that the correct procedures are followed out, even if the underpaid over worked manager can't be bothered.

cockney rebel · Post by **cockney rebel** » 04 Jun 2007, 14:27

don't necessarily agree with you on that, I was off sick with a doctors note for 6 weeks and went to there 'nurse' via occ health she said i was fit to return to work even though my doc sick note still had a week to run, seems they take the opinion of occ health before a qualified doctor, anyway i challenged their opinion and stayed off until my doc said.

Post by **Jessika** » 05 Jun 2007, 20:18

until your sick note had run out, or you go back to your dr and get signed back on you are not insured to be in the building you work in. However in MDEC they certainly ignore this in stage warning interviews and we are continually told
its not the validity of you absence thats in questions, its the numbre of days/ periods of absence that you have had'. Almost every stage triggered is issued.

Post by **dman** » 06 Jun 2007, 16:11

there was only one manager that would really listen to you about your sickness and he was fair and if it didnt warrant being issued he would never issue a stage warning

mind you he got into trouble about it and then the next thing we know hes now in the duty obs and doesnt have a team anymore, me thinks he was knobbled

and out of the three manager left on nights you know if you are in for a meeting with two of them no matter what circumstances they will issue that stage cos its more work for them if they dont

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 11 Jun 2007, 19:40

My DOM always gives warnings (unless you're his mate then he'll allow you to take holidays) any wonder morale is so low

ianpostie · Post by **ianpostie** » 11 Jun 2007, 22:41

i had a course of chemotherapy from aug-nov last year.the treatment required me to attend mount vernon hospital for 3 tuesdays a month for 3 months.after my treatment finished the time off i had triggered a stage one--my line manager asked me in for a "chat",my cwu rep informed the area rep who got on to our area manager who phoned the dom.i was informed the next day that my "chat" would not be taking place--my dom was most apologetic.my point is that the reason i was given that i had been pulled for my sick was its all done by computer now,seems no matter what your illness is you will always be pulled for your sickness..oh by the way i had a return to work everytime i returned from having my chemo,so the managers in my office were all aware of my situation!

tasam · Post by **tasam** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:10

ianpostie wrote:i had a course of chemotherapy from aug-nov last year.the treatment required me to attend mount vernon hospital for 3 tuesdays a month for 3 months.after my treatment finished the time off i had triggered a stage one--my line manager asked me in for a "chat",my cwu rep informed the area rep who got on to our area manager who phoned the dom.i was informed the next day that my "chat" would not be taking place--my dom was most apologetic.my point is that the reason i was given that i had been pulled for my sick was its all done by computer now,seems no matter what your illness is you will always be pulled for your sickness..oh by the way i had a return to work everytime i returned from having my chemo,so the managers in my office were all aware of my situation!

If you get much more grief from managers remind them about the Disability Descrimination Act

In 2005 aspects of the act were changed.

extending protection to cover people who have HIV, cancer and multiple sclerosis from the moment they are diagnosed

They must make 'reasonable adjustments', rigidly enforcing attendance procedures could be interpreted as indirect discrimination (especially if they disregard your medical condition)

cappamore · Post by **cappamore** » 12 Jun 2007, 15:34

Additionally, the Attendance Procedure states that absences due to disability will be discounted UNLESS an employee has been told they will be counted due to fact that RM are unable to make any reasonable adjustments.

ianpostie · Post by **ianpostie** » 12 Jun 2007, 15:44

everything has been sorted hopefully,thing is you never know with royal mail.i think the attendance procedure overall needs looking at and re-vamping.

cappamore · Post by **cappamore** » 12 Jun 2007, 15:53

Senior management said that in '04 and also said they wanted a new conduct code. Nothing's happened though.

Incidentally, if somebody who meets the criteria for disability under the DDA is issued with a warning they can claim compensation at an ET, even if that warning is subsequently withdrawn. Y'see they have already been discriminated against even if the warning is subsequently withdrawn. Once discrimination has occured it cannot be remedied by an employer.
Yes, Stage Warning papers are isuued by computer but a line manager does not have to issue them. I know of a manager who was sent a first stage warning for an LA who'd had time off with bone marrow disease; his only absence in 12 years! He sent them straight back.

norbet colon · Post by **norbet colon** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:41

The whole purpose of ATOS Origin- " ATOS Origin's doctors will overule your doctor,and we will have some work out of you". The CWU rep line is they work on the basis you have a "good" doctor, Royal Mail call it "Our new approach to absence- removing the barriers", also they will fit you up if at all possible as a malingerer , the manager has set questions in his BRF with required answers .
It's the extended arm of Royal Mail-if someone takes RM to a IT, who is liable ?, is the "Improved Health Care Profesional" or Royal Mail, and believe me RM will do anything to wriggle out of a corner as regards legality.I'm sorry if that's too cynical but I'd rather deal with the truth.I blame this regimented style of management, who can't sort the wheat from the chaff, it's too complicated!

billypants · Post by **billypants** » 14 Jun 2007, 22:24

My doctor has told me before now that once a medical certificate has been issued we are not allowed to return to work until it has expired and any company taking disciplinary action against someone because of time off like this is acting illegally. I told her I work for Royal Mail and she said " oh dear I've heard about their attitude too many times to mention, how on earth do they get away with it "

anyone out there know if this is true and if so how exactly how do they get away with it

Post by **POSTMAN** » 14 Jun 2007, 22:41

Interesting Billy,but if there was something in it i would of thought the Union would of got hold of it more.
Managers favourite line is we know it's genuine,but you've still gone outside the guidlines or some bollox like that.

norbet colon · Post by **norbet colon** » 15 Jun 2007, 10:37

billypants wrote:My doctor has told me before now that once a medical certificate has been issued we are not allowed to return to work until it has expired and any company taking disciplinary action against someone because of time off like this is acting illegally. I told her I work for Royal Mail and she said " oh dear I've heard about their attitude too many times to mention, how on earth do they get away with it "

anyone out there know if this is true and if so how exactly how do they get away with it

very true !, " Our new approach to absence - to remove the barriers"-depends if the place has high absence figures which means there will be pressure from above, Senior Mgt want the culture changed; junior & middle mgt will keep area & territory away by whatever means.
RM will try & make out that you "contributed " to your absence " We must make " Lifestyle Choices " to avoid unecessary absence". Remember the Sun article where a Sunday League delivery postie was sacked by letter from area, not by the DOM. RM has always thought itself above the law, but it's worse with L&C, traditionally if anyone claimed against them , things would be made "difficult". RM do " welfare calls" as under duty of care , "the letters of support" it's "A large employer that values staff to show that people are not forgotten & important".