Why should the Union expect support on this site. We have been mentioned in a bad light by some members of the Union in the past and we have posted both good and bad news stories on both Union and RM matters. Just check out the footer on most pages of this site:
We have no affiliation with either Royal Mail or the Communications Workers Union (CWU), except that most of our members work for Royal Mail and/or are members of the CWU.
To the actual story. Its not very informative and appears a bit of a non story and until (or if) we every get the full facts no one can make any sensible judgements either way as to the accuracy or veracity of the facts, or the situation surrounding the incident.
However, anyone who wants to make an insensible or non-sensible judgement can do so in the full knowledge that this forum neither necessarily condones or is in agreement with anything or everything posted on this site, and as all members agreed when joining RMC that they are ultimately responsible for their own posts.
Of course if any Moderators or the Site owner believe such a post is potentially libellous or leaves the forum open to litigation it will be removed as will any post complaining about its removal.
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts. Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility. If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
Personally I think its a cop out. It should not have been put up on this site. Anyone who knows what happened knows that. Cheap shots like if he was working for royal mail he would have been done for bringing the Royal Mail into disrpute is laughable. We as a union and Dave in particular have protected members from that charge on numerous occassions including the time two postman were set up by piers morgan, a certain burslem related charge and numerous others i could list.
In my opinion its a storm in a tea cup. The sooner we get back to concerntarting on the fact that the hooper report still hasnt come out when a certain Richard Hooper had previously promised " doing nothing and kicking the issue in the long grass is not an option. " Yet the rumours are that may well happen shouldt we be discussing that.
The one thing which has always seperated the CWU from other unions is that we do not make issues personal or take cheap shots. Instead we pride ourseleves on the fact that we can argue and debate both policies , strategies and tactics but we dont take cheap shots at eachother.
I have had numerous disagreements with dave and billy but thats over the tactics for moving the our members issues forward including pensions forward. However personal attacks and faceless anonymous attacks are cowardly and dont move anyone forward. By all means question their judgement and policies, comms and pace at moving the issues forward cause that is fair game but dont try and point score when most of you have not a clue what happened.
Of course Dingo you are entitled to your opinion of which I have some sympathy. However, as we have in the past been berated for lack of "Free Speech" (is there such a thing ) on this site we have to tread a fine line between the 2 views on this thread. I don't think we should delete a post just because it does not support RMCs general views or position, or if it shows someone in a bad light - particularly if it is or was publicly available. After all as I do this along with POSTMAN and JP entirely voluntarily and without recompense we will make mistakes and we will not be able to keep everyone happy all the time, but we do try out best.
I honestly believe that the article was posted for information rather than any underhanded tactic or cheap shot.
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts. Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility. If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Of course Dingo you are entitled to your opinion of which I have some sympathy. However, as we have in the past been berated for lack of "Free Speech" (is there such a thing ) on this site we have to tread a fine line between the 2 views on this thread. I don't think we should delete a post just because it does not support RMCs general views or position, or if it shows someone in a bad light - particularly if it is or was publicly available. After all as I do this along with POSTMAN and JP entirely voluntarily and without recompense we will make mistakes and we will not be able to keep everyone happy all the time, but we do try out best.
I honestly believe that the article was posted for information rather than any underhanded tactic or cheap shot.
Informative in what sense? Again it may be 'of interest to' but not 'in the interest of' and there is a clear distinction here. I'm no union man and have no feelings about CWU leaders either way to be honest, but I do respect those that do, even if I don't agree with them. Surely if postal workers as a whole, particularly now. are to have ANY friends left, annexing the CWU with this kind of 'infomation', which is of no consequence to any of the issues we face, leaves us dead in the water and RMC standing on a tiny piece of ice in one big ocean. I'm actually with Dingo on this I'm afraid. If as many believe, standing together is important, this does not demonstrate that in any way, and worse, RMC is the only one covering it which seems entirely absurd.
Don't believe everything you're told in the rest room
FFS it was in the paper and no more info other than what was printed is avaliable. It's a " oh yeah by the way " did you hear story, and commanded as much space in the paper. info should not be withheld cause someone thinks it's not right, on this occasion it should only withheld if it's not accurate.
Confused... You won't be, after the next episode of. SOAP
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Of course Dingo you are entitled to your opinion of which I have some sympathy. However, as we have in the past been berated for lack of "Free Speech" (is there such a thing ) on this site we have to tread a fine line between the 2 views on this thread. I don't think we should delete a post just because it does not support RMCs general views or position, or if it shows someone in a bad light - particularly if it is or was publicly available. After all as I do this along with POSTMAN and JP entirely voluntarily and without recompense we will make mistakes and we will not be able to keep everyone happy all the time, but we do try out best.
I honestly believe that the article was posted for information rather than any underhanded tactic or cheap shot.
Informative in what sense? Again it may be 'of interest to' but not 'in the interest of' and there is a clear distinction here. I'm no union man and have no feelings about CWU leaders either way to be honest, but I do respect those that do, even if I don't agree with them. Surely if postal workers as a whole, particularly now. are to have ANY friends left, annexing the CWU with this kind of 'infomation', which is of no consequence to any of the issues we face, leaves us dead in the water and RMC standing on a tiny piece of ice in one big ocean. I'm actually with Dingo on this I'm afraid. If as many believe, standing together is important, this does not demonstrate that in any way, and worse, RMC is the only one covering it which seems entirely absurd.
I'm quite sure, that you know as well as I do, that "the grapevine" loves this sort of thing. Geopip posted a request for information about the incident. Surely that's better than relying on rumours, isn't it?
The article was very vague. And someone might have had a better source, which could have shed some light on the subject. But as none of us seem to know any more than Geopip. It made sense to show that the article did exist, ans what it actually said.
As Dave Ward is in a position of power. It's in the Public interest, to know about this type of thing. Because it would say a lot about his character, if we knew the circumstances of the fight. Unfortunately, it doesn't give us that crucial piece of information. So it only creates speculation.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
I feel if I followed Night Tonics Logic to its logical conclusion (at least as I read it) that we should no longer display any stories that show Royal Mail or any individual postie in a bad light again. After all we are all trying to the same job in getting mail to recipients and perhaps we should not show any postal staff or the company, and indeed the Union in a bad light.
We have posted stories that show AL and AC in a bad light, we have shown stories that praise Royal Mail. We have shown stories that are against the Unions position and those that are for. We have shown stories that show Posties doing good and even heroic deeds and ones about the thieving and lazy ones . Is it fair then, that if there is a story about a senior Union member whether showing them in good or bad light, not be posted just because the majority of people on here are members of his union.
I post news stories that I feel are informative and or would interest members of RMC. A story in a national newspaper about a senior union official I think comes under that. Would it be fair not to post it but to always post ones that denigrate AL or AC. I for one don't think it would be.
RMC is neither for or against the Union or RM, ultimately we are here as a resource to members of the forum. Nothing more nothing less.
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts. Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility. If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I feel if I followed Night Tonics Logic to its logical conclusion (at least as I read it) that we should no longer display any stories that show Royal Mail or any individual postie in a bad light again. After all we are all trying to the same job in getting mail to recipients and perhaps we should not show any postal staff or the company, and indeed the Union in a bad light.
We have posted stories that show AL and AC in a bad light, we have shown stories that praise Royal Mail. We have shown stories that are against the Unions position and those that are for. We have shown stories that show Posties doing good and even heroic deeds and ones about the thieving and lazy ones . Is it fair then, that if there is a story about a senior Union member whether showing them in good or bad light, not be posted just because the majority of people on here are members of his union.
I post news stories that I feel are informative and or would interest members of RMC. A story in a national newspaper about a senior union official I think comes under that. Would it be fair not to post it but to always post ones that denigrate AL or AC. I for one don't think it would be.
RMC is neither for or against the Union or RM, ultimately we are here as a resource to members of the forum. Nothing more nothing less.
Exactly Teebs and an excellent resource to members of the forum and long may you continue posting news stories that are informative and or would interest members of RMC albeit that most of the members work for Royal Mail and/or are members of the CWU. That's why I recently posted on this thread Dog Attacks on Postmen/women Rise. Of particular interest to delivery postmen as Royal Mail acknowledge that dog attacks are on the rise, and also gives the CWU position about Dangerous Dogs. There is also the contentious issue of the use of Private Vehicles being used whilst out on delivery, whilst the CWU National position is for calling for a complete ban on such use, and yet we see low and behold in the 2nd link a delivery postie actually being filmed using a private vehicle whilst said postie has been telling the camera crew about when he was attacked and badly bitten by an alsation dog.
"Today’s workplace has become heartless and soulless. Employees are seen as units of labour, automatons, functionaries, objects for achieving designated tasks, and as costs to be minimised."
andy2007 wrote:As Dave Ward is in a position of power. It's in the Public interest, to know about this type of thing. Because it would say a lot about his character, if we knew the circumstances of the fight. Unfortunately, it doesn't give us that crucial piece of information. So it only creates speculation.
Its only 'in the public interest' where his actions could have a direct effect on those who have an interest or there could be wide repurcussions. In this instance it is 'in the interest of the public', but thats all. There is, as I said, a distinction. If Gordon Brown had a mistress, that might be 'in the interests of the public' but not 'in the public interest' like lets say for example, it turns out he was secretly planning to increase taxes by 20% or authorised potentially unsafe nuclear testing in Watford. The two aren't the same. Personally I don't care what anyone says about Dave Ward, but the two are very different. As for whether RMC is for or against RM or the CWU, I'd say thats a shifting ideology anyway. There was a time when CWU logos appeared in abundance on here. Following the modernisation agreement, Hayes became Mr 'pie eating' man etc so I'm never quite sure at times what RMC actually represents other than an anarchic knees-up. Not a criticism, just an observation. The biggest change has been the fighting spirit which seems to have evaporated. If you compared the emphasis a year ago to now, you're see a big difference I expect. Everyone seemed to be behind the union, now no one seems to care about it. The intro to RMC was also very different a year ago. At one time it invited business customers but thats been taken out I think. Realistically they won't use it. So whether RMC is pro this or anti that changes like the weather but I'll wager that an article on Ward being arrested, if its even true, would not have got airtime at the height of the strikes, and certainly not if Ward had become a regular poster on here. RMC is far less 'united fight' and more 'information' so it has changed.
Don't believe everything you're told in the rest room
Hayes became Mr 'pie eating' man, I wonder who said that?
I just pray that the pie eater doesn't tackle negotations as misinformed as many seem to be. Mail volume is what WE process - not what we handle, and it is down. Still, put your name down for the union negotiating team- you've nowt to lose.
Last edited by Night Tonic on Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:58,pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pre-pie days dvbuk55. Just imagine him inflated with a super-sized bicycle pump :)
Still, at least his pie bill is covered. Would hate to think of him as wasting away....
Bravery isn’t not being afraid. Bravery is being afraid but doing it anyway
If it was any Royal Mail managers who got arrested, you can bet your bottom dollar we'd all be on here discussing it, especially if it was the company's 2ic.
There is no such thing as "a private matter" once you start shoving policemen around.
Tall Guy wrote:If it was any Royal Mail managers who got arrested, you can bet your bottom dollar we'd all be on here discussing it, especially if it was the company's 2ic.
Was just about to make that point myself. More pertinently, after the rubbish the UK press has written about us and many others in the past, I am loathe to believe much that is in there anyway.
andy2007 wrote:As Dave Ward is in a position of power. It's in the Public interest, to know about this type of thing. Because it would say a lot about his character, if we knew the circumstances of the fight. Unfortunately, it doesn't give us that crucial piece of information. So it only creates speculation.
Its only 'in the public interest' where his actions could have a direct effect on those who have an interest or there could be wide repurcussions. In this instance it is 'in the interest of the public', but thats all. There is, as I said, a distinction. If Gordon Brown had a mistress, that might be 'in the interests of the public' but not 'in the public interest' like lets say for example, it turns out he was secretly planning to increase taxes by 20% or authorised potentially unsafe nuclear testing in Watford. The two aren't the same. Personally I don't care what anyone says about Dave Ward, but the two are very different. As for whether RMC is for or against RM or the CWU, I'd say thats a shifting ideology anyway. There was a time when CWU logos appeared in abundance on here. Following the modernisation agreement, Hayes became Mr 'pie eating' man etc so I'm never quite sure at times what RMC actually represents other than an anarchic knees-up. Not a criticism, just an observation. The biggest change has been the fighting spirit which seems to have evaporated. If you compared the emphasis a year ago to now, you're see a big difference I expect. Everyone seemed to be behind the union, now no one seems to care about it. The intro to RMC was also very different a year ago. At one time it invited business customers but thats been taken out I think. Realistically they won't use it. So whether RMC is pro this or anti that changes like the weather but I'll wager that an article on Ward being arrested, if its even true, would not have got airtime at the height of the strikes, and certainly not if Ward had become a regular poster on here. RMC is far less 'united fight' and more 'information' so it has changed.
You're spot on with the examples you used, to illustrate the difference between Public interest, and in the interests of the Public. However: If he was the aggressor, it would show that he is cracking under the strain. Which could have serious repercussions for the CWU, and potentially Royal Mail. Anything which could affect RM, is in the interests of the Public. Because we provide an important service for them.
Oviously, if he was only defending a Relative from a heavy hande arest. Then it's in the interests of the Public, to know that such tactics were being used by he Police. There are of course other shades of grey. It might not be as clear cut, as my two hypothises. But I hope you see my point.
As for the changes in attitude at RMC: RMC is a reflection of the views of the Members. As our opinions change, and we gain/loose Members. So the overall attiude of the posts change.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
) on this site we have to tread a fine line between the 2 views on this thread. I don't think we should delete a post just because it does not support RMCs general views or position, or if it shows someone in a bad light - particularly if it is or was publicly available. After all as I do this along with POSTMAN and JP entirely voluntarily and without recompense we will make mistakes and we will not be able to keep everyone happy all the time, but we do try out best.