The conduct code

[norbert]

We have this person working in our office, he is a manager they say, he is ex army he thinks he is still in it!,his sole reason for being there is to make the staffs lives a pain, all morning he stares at you and writes bits on a piece of paper about you and your sorting,he will come up and tell you that you have to stop talking to work harder,threatens staff all the time, if you complain your told your just there to cause trouble.When he goes out to walk test staff he will stand at the start of your delivery and shout go like your in a race,course we are it's the 1 minute mile run,he will tell you if you are at a door to long and to write a docket even if it's an older person, he will come up with every reason to why your delivery is not working it will be you at fault not that they have cobbled it up,has anyone got the same in their office.if not who wants to borrow him!offers on a post card.Have had an idea maybe we should ebay him; 1bully for sale comes with some really crap ideas, picks on people to make him feel important, cosh supplied with no extra cost.Bids start at 99 pence.

It sounds like harrasment get a HR1 form or phone this number 0800 587 4777 and report this bully he is makeing your life and your fellow workers life's hell. And keep us all posted but becarefull. Hope i have helped you all if not someone will.

Senior & Area Management would have put him in to soften people up , break the union - usually it's DIM's that are put there to do that which worked ever so well at Burslem & Bristol

I've sorted out someone with another big Public Service Union that was like that - if you went through the rep's handbook as how to define bullying it was all text book stuff - couldn't get more stereotypical !

All " management " was done by various forms of bullying - I was Supervisor on fixed term that didn't necessarily agree with it - so you can imagine that I spent a bit of time at the Union Annex - that person was used to either bits of kids or middle aged women that wouldn't say boo to a goose bit like our "friend " Corporal Clott " in a way .

However that person was only there to fire bullets for a 50's Macho manager above - there was a rep that sorted him out a few times but there was handwringing from Personnel - they wanted to sack him 5 times but couldn't find legal grounds to do so - what they really meant was a tribunal would be embarrassing

Even he wasn't that stupid - he knew he could be dropped in it by that person so he tried to persuade that person to not take that job 5 times - he knew he'd get a bloody nose from picking on the wrong person eventually .

In another big Union we'd loads like " Corporal Clott " - they were just sh***hawks - eventually ! they were all got rid of as they were often brain dead parasites that had outlived their usefulness and more Senior Managers knew they were too much of liability getting cited too often in Tribunals etc .

I can't see that happening with Royal Brain Dead though as the orders are to protect local managers , as with Empire builders of the worst kind in charge and a management structure that operates for the benefit of the managers in it instead of running a business it's not going to happen . :lfo :cfo

You got to be patient with the likes of Corporal Clott , play him at his own game , call his bluff , note everything , who , when , what so it's in black & white - so RM can't close ranks so easily to wriggle out of things . ---- give him enough rope to hang himself

[norbert]

You can't report a manager for bullying and harassment now because they investigate it themselves, then they find themselves innocent and you end up being done for taking the B&H out (it's happened too many times in my office to mention).

100 % correct!! now if a person takes the internal process to the max and then they do that well then the matter i would be taking outside of r m

Yes, you just need the patience to take the crap, until you're able to take it outside of RM. Personally, I normally try to get this sort of thing sorted out "off the record", via my Union Rep. It's usually very effective, as it saves them the embarrassment of having to "go through the motions" of an investigation.

Unfortunately, last week I had to put a formal complaint in about a Manager. So it looks like I will be facing the same sort of crap myself, soon. But that's no reason to let people get away with bullying and/or harassment, is it?

yea andy, they will dot the i's and cross the t's and lie!! they done it to me mate! I was told my complaint would be taken as in not good faith then conduct code!! At that time i would not have been in a fit state to go through a court thing but now i would be!!

RM had too many complaints - so people had to dissuaded - it didn't actually go with all the spin and hype from :lfo -

also RM were threatened with investigation by the Equal Opportunities Commission ( 62 % of complaints upheld citing Managers harassing women ) and the Commission for Racial Equality - so RM had to be holier than thou , go on "moral" crusades "to impress them - doesn't matter how obscure , vague or perverse the justification is for " in bad faith " - RM will use it

- RM will twist matters on it's head to wriggle out of things - doesn't always work as they tend to botch things as their disciplinary cases tend to be contradictory , flawed, full of holes and beg more questions than answers

[Ex RM Manager]

As I said at the time of my third internal greivance (all an ineffectual whitewash) that the RM have no idea how extraordinarily close they came to a repeat of the Birmingham Suicide in my own instance. Each greivance procedure came slightly closer to them admitting that the senior managers in my instance abused, misused, and perversely interpreted to the maximum legal limit procedure and spirit of the conduct code until any faith I had in anything approaching a fair result was destroyed completely. In the end, I weighed the chances of keeping my job against a redundancy offer, and decided that since the chances of a fallacious and unfair dismissal were more than the chances of my keeping my job, I took the money. It was an appalling result. If what I was alleged to have done had ANY actual evidence to it I would've been marched off the premises instantly : the fact they didn't means they knew they couldn't make it stick but wanted me out. There are ways of saying something without actually saying it.

How close did they come to me throwing msyelf off Beachy Head? About four feet, actually. It's only because I'm a stubborn bastard who holds grudges I'm alive today.

All I wanted from them was "Sorry, our managers abused their positions, and steps have been taken" would be enough, but they wouldn't even do that.

[baldrick]

Good for you mate.
If RM made me contemplate topping myself I'd take these two with me :lfo :cfo
Good luck with your case.

[DGP1]

The unfortunate thing is that you really want to be talked out of killing yourself but as I've found ATOS and RM management just push you until you snap and 'go postal' and you can't tell anyone that you feel like that otherwise they are obliged to contact the police and report you

[andy2007]

The unfortunate thing is that you really want to be talked out of killing yourself but as I've found ATOS and RM management just push you until you snap and 'go postal' and you can't tell anyone that you feel like that otherwise they are obliged to contact the police and report you

Of course you can! The only time they are compelled to contact the Police, is when you are a threat to others. So if you tell them you want to attack someone, they have to act. If it's yourself you want to harm. There is absolutely no need for them to involve the Police.

Keeping quiet about suicidal thoughts, is the worst thing you can do. You need to ask for, and above all, get, help.

[DGP1]

The unfortunate thing is that you really want to be talked out of killing yourself but as I've found ATOS and RM management just push you until you snap and 'go postal' and you can't tell anyone that you feel like that otherwise they are obliged to contact the police and report you

Of course you can! The only time they are compelled to contact the Police, is when you are a threat to others. So if you tell them you want to attack someone, they have to act. If it's yourself you want to harm. There is absolutely no need for them to involve the Police.

Keeping quiet about suicidal thoughts, is the worst thing you can do. You need to ask for, and above all, get, help.

If I'm going I'm taking some of them with me.

[andy2007]

The unfortunate thing is that you really want to be talked out of killing yourself but as I've found ATOS and RM management just push you until you snap and 'go postal' and you can't tell anyone that you feel like that otherwise they are obliged to contact the police and report you

Of course you can! The only time they are compelled to contact the Police, is when you are a threat to others. So if you tell them you want to attack someone, they have to act. If it's yourself you want to harm. There is absolutely no need for them to involve the Police.

Keeping quiet about suicidal thoughts, is the worst thing you can do. You need to ask for, and above all, get, help.

If I'm going I'm taking some of them with me.

Why let them win?
If you go, they win. Whether you take some o them with you or not. You'll be one less person to pay wages to. Don't give them the satisfaction.

[norbert]

As I said at the time of my third internal grievance (all an ineffectual whitewash) that the RM have no idea how extraordinarily close they came to a repeat of the Birmingham Suicide in my own instance. Each grievance procedure came slightly closer to them admitting that the senior managers in my instance abused, misused, and perversely interpreted to the maximum legal limit procedure and spirit of the conduct code until any faith I had in anything approaching a fair result was destroyed completely. In the end, I weighed the chances of keeping my job against a redundancy offer, and decided that since the chances of a fallacious and unfair dismissal were more than the chances of my keeping my job, I took the money. It was an appalling result. If what I was alleged to have done had ANY actual evidence to it I would've been marched off the premises instantly : the fact they didn't means they knew they couldn't make it stick but wanted me out. There are ways of saying something without actually saying it.

How close did they come to me throwing myself off Beachy Head? About four feet, actually. It's only because I'm a stubborn bastard who holds grudges I'm alive today.

All I wanted from them was "Sorry, our managers abused their positions, and steps have been taken" would be enough, but they wouldn't even do that.

I have no confidence at all in RM grievance procedures - RM have never done responsibility prior to L&C and there is a very negative style of management with a blame culture now - RM have always been a autocratic employer that regards itself as above the law - with RM being neither one thing or the other and a square peg being shoved into a round hole - you'll get the worst of both old RM & the ruthless one dimensional commercial one with L&C .

As for legal limit of procedure and spirt - I would say RM actions tend to be illegal - if they were legal they'd need a very expensive solicitor or barrister to justify their actions on a very superficial level - let's face it they are old fashioned fit ups to a foregone conclusion - start with a verdict , then a charge and "evidence" - once the braindead RM machine get's into gear it's very difficult to stop it - people's only due recourse is Tribunals - RM are not popular with Tribunal Chairmen either - they find RM to be too judgmental and black and white & inflexible

They are corporate shaftings to get people to toe the line - nothing more : let's face it it's petty politics - the black art of the possible and these devious to the point of being neurotic people have it down to a fine art

However all this petty politics is merely to cover for the fact they can't manage - most business people are more pragmatic and don't end up on the Internet , in the media or in Tribunal Courts

RM's arrogance is also it's Achillies Heel - their other problem is they don't get - On the balance of probabilities - that's why that arrogance has been exploited hence the frequent negative coverage

They've always worked that way- 350 years of culture - grievance procedures are merely a tool to whitewash and to protect ? cover for managers and to delay and/ or discourage the inevitable tribunals . Everything is purely to impress other managers .

RM's senior mangers have shown their incompetence and lack of experience in dealing with both UNITE & the CWU , UNITE accuse them of having no imagination or vision , incompetence and a arrogant " we know best " approach .

I sympathize with people that have fallen foul of RM's vicious system - there is no logic , rationality , common sense whatsoever - the best reported example was the Holden v Royal Mail case which is googleable .

I've read comments in " Voice " like " I'm glad to get my sanity back " - at one time - the Union would get people back - it would get propaganda to print saying how badly RM have handled things - these days RM just play siege mentality management - they will defend their more senior managers no matter what as there's orders not to undermine their more junior managers .

RM would also have to admit they have a problem and there is a unwritten agenda to CofC - the CWU state that the process is corrupt and it is a abused tool to target reps and activists that stand up to this bullying organization .

That was a complete farce - unfortunately for RM , Holden had the services of one of the countries top barristers who wiped the floor with RM's managers and legal people and the report stated the Tribunal panel listened to this sorry episode with incredulity and effectively fined RM a five figure sum for their perverse , warped instuitionalized stupidity

However if people wish to live in a " RM in Wonderland ' world which defies all logic - it's those idiots in charge with the problem - not the victims of it - you can't really take that system on otherwise it just gets more brutal - however you can play " guerilla warfare " with it or "torpedo " that system - which gives RM problems - when this site went down - somebody from a rival site said " they'll be doing cartwheels at 148 Old St "

We had idiots in another service that thought they were god's gift to the service and were fireproof and bulletheaded - however eventually the service got better Senior management and those idiots were given their marching orders - some of them had to have their hands practically prized off the door handles when given their marching orders but they went as they'd outlived their usefulness and had become a embarrassment

Can't see it happening with RM's Board and Senior Management though .

[Eric]

Brilliant post norbert. You are so right.

[Ex RM Manager]

how many heads of Procurement at RM have mysteriously left the RM recently?

[norbert]

how many heads of Procurement at RM have mysteriously left the RM recently?

good question RM - especially after the "safety boots " that put posties on their arses - that bit about roughing up the soles with emery paper or similar was surreal - If the shop assistant told you to do that with a brand new pair of hiking boots in Millets - you'd think she/he was puddled

a lot of rats jumping up off the sinking ship :lfo ? next :cfo ? or the deckchairs being rearranged on the Titantic ?