The conduct code

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 26 Oct 2008, 23:51

You can't report a manager for bullying and harrassment now because they investigate it themselves, then they find themselves innocent and you end up being done for taking the B&H out (it's happened too many times in my office to mention).

madelin4 · Post by **madelin4** » 27 Oct 2008, 09:09

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:You can't report a manager for bullying and harrassment now because they investigate it themselves, then they find themselves innocent and you end up being done for taking the B&H out (it's happened too many times in my office to mention).

100 % correct!! now if a person takes the internal process to the max and then they do that well then the matter i would be taking outside of r m

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 27 Oct 2008, 09:22

madelin4 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:You can't report a manager for bullying and harassment now because they investigate it themselves, then they find themselves innocent and you end up being done for taking the B&H out (it's happened too many times in my office to mention).
100 % correct!! now if a person takes the internal process to the max and then they do that well then the matter i would be taking outside of r m

Yes, you just need the patience to take the crap, until you're able to take it outside of RM. Personally, I normally try to get this sort of thing sorted out "off the record", via my Union Rep. It's usually very effective, as it saves them the embarrassment of having to "go through the motions" of an investigation.

Unfortunately, last week I had to put a formal complaint in about a Manager. So it looks like I will be facing the same sort of crap myself, soon. But that's no reason to let people get away with bullying and/or harassment, is it?

madelin4 · Post by **madelin4** » 27 Oct 2008, 09:28

andy2007 wrote:
madelin4 wrote:
disgruntledpostie1 wrote:You can't report a manager for bullying and harassment now because they investigate it themselves, then they find themselves innocent and you end up being done for taking the B&H out (it's happened too many times in my office to mention).
100 % correct!! now if a person takes the internal process to the max and then they do that well then the matter i would be taking outside of r m
Yes, you just need the patience to take the crap, until you're able to take it outside of RM. Personally, I normally try to get this sort of thing sorted out "off the record", via my Union Rep. It's usually very effective, as it saves them the embarrassment of having to "go through the motions" of an investigation.

Unfortunately, last week I had to put a formal complaint in about a Manager. So it looks like I will be facing the same sort of crap myself, soon. But that's no reason to let people get away with bullying and/or harassment, is it?

yea andy, they will dot the i's and cross the t's and lie!! they done it to me mate! I was told my complaint would be taken as in not good faith then conduct code!! At that time i would not have been in a fit state to go through a court thing but now i would be!!

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 27 Oct 2008, 09:45

Sadly, that's what they count on. Just look at what normally happens: They make a last minute offer of an out of Court settlement. This is usually accepted, rather than go through even more stress, and they avoid having another Court Case go against them!

Luckily my Collegue took his case right through the Court Case, and won. There were repercussions, once he returned to Work. Which sadly, he didn't want to take as far. Because the result wasn't anywhere near as serious. It was just a case of the Managers, wanting to score points.

The really sad thing about it, was that when I put the details on here, and asked for messages of support for him, when the repercussions hit. I was warned by a Union Rep, that if anyone involved saw it, I could be done for B&H! Because although I hadn't used any names, or dates. Everyone in the area, knew about the case!

Luckily, a printout of the Thread, was enough to lift his spirits. And POSTMAN kindly removed the Thread for me. Who'd have thought, that putting verifiable FACTS on here, could be classed as B&H. When no names or dates were mentioned?!?!?

ronpetetrevchris · Post by **ronpetetrevchris** » 27 Oct 2008, 12:22

bandit650 wrote:We have this person working in our office, he is a manager they say, he is ex army he thinks he is still in it!,his sole reason for being there is to make the staffs lives a pain, all morning he stares at you and writes bits on a piece of paper about you and your sorting,he will come up and tell you that you have to stop talking to work harder,threatens staff all the time, if you complain your told your just there to cause trouble.When he goes out to walk test staff he will stand at the start of your delivery and shout go like your in a race,course we are it's the 1 minute mile run,he will tell you if you are at a door to long and to write a docket even if it's an older person, he will come up with every reason to why your delivery is not working it will be you at fault not that they have cobbled it up,has anyone got the same in their office.if not who wants to borrow him!offers on a post card.Have had an idea maybe we should ebay him; 1bully for sale comes with some really crap ideas, picks on people to make him feel important, cosh supplied with no extra cost.Bids start at 99 pence.

Oh please lend him to us, man i cant think of the limitations to take the piss out of this bloke. fIELD DAY COMES TO MIND, SOMEONE LIKE THAT HATES BEING LAUGHED AT , I D START THERE.

Big Daz · Post by **Big Daz** » 27 Oct 2008, 14:28

Dont forget the greviance procedure, all your doing then is saying your unhappy about something without accusing any paticular individual of being of being a bully. Complain about the managers methods and then get everyone else to put in a greviance along the same lines if they are unhappy as well.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 27 Oct 2008, 16:22

Some people just can't take discipline - everyone should be made to do at least 2 years service in the Army, perhaps then there would be a more measured approach to what is or isn't bullying and harassment - bunch of cissies

bandit650 · Post by **bandit650** » 27 Oct 2008, 19:58

Thanks everyone for the words of advice and the ideas,the last i have heard is that 15 staff have put complaints of one sort or another in,i,m just going back to work tomorrow as i have been on leave for a week i will let you know what action man has been up to.

Ex RM Manager · Post by **Ex RM Manager** » 28 Oct 2008, 21:53

Greivance, Conduct Code, IPP : if you let them police themselves, it'll end up a Whitewash, they should be subject to investigation by people who are NOT R.M. employees.

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 28 Oct 2008, 22:33

They are. But not, until you've "gone through the motions" of using the internal procedures, first.

bandit650 · Post by **bandit650** » 29 Oct 2008, 21:28

Well hi all i'm back at work and all i can say is i thought that managers could not get any worse,this time this manager has taken it a little to far,one member of staff has had him on his case for three weeks, last week the red mist decended now we have the 1st of many grievences going in, picked at this chap even bringing age into it this is all down to not getting the right results on a delivery test, this manager will go to any depth to monk staff of,the worse bit is he does not think he is doing anything wrong,we can only try to get this sorted out .keep you posted.

madelin4 · Post by **madelin4** » 30 Oct 2008, 14:23

Are thy doing this sorting test across the board??? In our place we are brought to the side to sort for about 10-15 mins then each letter is checked.

Dynamo 2 · Post by **Dynamo 2** » 30 Oct 2008, 15:13

Ex RM Manager wrote:Greivance, Conduct Code, IPP : if you let them police themselves, it'll end up a Whitewash, they should be subject to investigation by people who are NOT R.M. employees.

Ex RM, I totally agree with you. I also believe that when employees are dismissed and go to appeal, that their appeals should be dealt with by an independant body. A Royal Mail manager sacks you, and yet your appeal is heard by another Royal Mail Manager....how are you supposed to get an impartial result? Answer.....YOU DON'T!!!!! I found that out the hard way!

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 30 Oct 2008, 20:35

Ex RM Manager wrote:Grievance, Conduct Code, IPP : if you let them police themselves, it'll end up a Whitewash, they should be subject to investigation by people who are NOT R.M. employees.

Ironically that was suggested in Lord Sawyers report , i.e . panels with an independent element which is better than everyone in the car park and Industrial Tribunals - bullying was mentioned in the papers suggesting RM was stuck in the 60's or even worse Demob days post WW2 - Blue Liebour's " Answer " was :lfo

- " Reg Holdsworth's " style is 70's Supermarket Command and Control from Archie Norman and a 80's Macho " Fear , Uncertainty & Doubt " - macho style - that's when the pendulum swung too far the other way , a reaction to the 70's .

Naturally that's a recipe for B&H and NOONE is immune

RM had problems with dreadful cases like Jermain Lee's suicide at Birmingham MC , the only time when mangers were suspended and disciplined as it was embarrassing so RM went into panic mode and people had to be taught lessons for making trouble for RM

There is a Union bashing element too as it's beyond the realms of coincidence that reps and activists tend to be targetted in this corrupt process as everything is purely to impress more senior managers and to a foregone conclusion anyway - it's the unwritten agenda that's why RM rely on slippery solicitors to make " Life on Mars " style fitups look " straight " :mfo :cfo :lfo