MONTHLY PAY

[andy2007]

I don't. But what choice do we have?
The majority voted for the Pay and Modernisation Agreement. And it's in Part 4, so it's happening.

I wonder how many of them even knew that Monthly Pay was part of what they were voting for?
Not many, eh?

It's about time, people actually started reading things, before they vote on them!

As I recall it was a vote that was recommended as the best they could get and how well they had done to remove the pension element from the agreement and the ballot! Some agreement - and the pension ......................

Yep they soon removed the pension didn't they!. Talk about our own union kicking us in the nut's. As far as monthly pay don't worry about it as it's a done deal and we have been done over!. It is about time the membership took the god damm time to look think and act and vote for themself's for without the membership what good is a union!.

Well said!

[Martin Walsh]

The negativity on this sites never ceases to amaze me !!

Your negativity is part of what is holding the cwu back as i call them the canteen cowboys always sniping but never leading anything.

Look the phase 4 joint working parties have harldly met and are a million miles away from agreeing anything let alone monthly pay. The fact is that phase 1 and 2 was what everyone has concentrated on and most of the joint working parties have met just 3 or 4 times !! In any case if and at this stage its a big if there is an agreement on any issues which the joint agreement covers then the membership will have their say via a democartic ballot of the membership.

Moreover those who refer to be let down by pensions what has your branch done to raise this issue to the point where the cwu believe they can get a yes vote ?

I was at the Northampton briefing and if it was not for London their would have not been a debate on pensions. Why is that is it because other branches have not showed leadership on this issue or is it that the members are not up for it but they certainly were not banging down the doors to get a ballot on the matter. I was also at the Northampton briefing in febraury where branchs perfered to do another consultation ballot rather launch a ballot the membership for industrial action.

The point is that in London we have mounted a campaign on pensions and believe if the ballot was called we would be in a good position to get a yes vote but others are not in that position for a viairty of reasons. Some Branch`s are facing mail centre closures and that is their piority , some have not done the work and others need more time. You all belong to branch`s what are you doing to assist your branch in the campign on pensions ?

Snipping and criticsing on this site does not get us anywhere in the long run. The CWU can only ballot on pensions when its believes it will deliver a yes vote and as much as i hate to say it we not at the stage where we would get a yes vote !! I have no axe to grind as i have long since campaigned for a fight to overturn Royal Mail`s exective action and get our final salery pension back.

I have criticised CWU Hqs numerous times for the lack of a membership campaign but that was on the basis of the fact we need to unite the members in opposition to what Royal Mail have done on pensions. There is still time despite the appointment of mandleson to force the right settlement on pensions. The question is will you help achieve that or will you destroy the message by being negative and anti cwu hq ?

Finally some of you were very critical of pay and mod and the scare stories at the time were horrific but have they proved true ?

The fact is that we recieve two percentage rises and two lump sums for very little change. To the point where all the managers who were directly involved in the deal have either been sacked or have left Green , Mcarthy, wilson ,melvin , barrie, bachlor and of course leighton . The reasons for all of them going is that the cwu once again conned them in a similar way to what we did under the way forward and fit to deliever is that we took the money up front and then agreed to very little change in return.

Can anyone really say that pay and mod has delieved what the bussiness wanted and thought they were going to achieve ?

So it is time this site was used as positve in helping lead the campaign on the above rather then snipe and moan as its really does not move our members forward.

No doubt i will get lots of sniping comments in return but pehaps we can have a sensible discussion on how to unite the cwu in pursance of getting the final salery back and dfending the industry we work in from a joint venture !

[johnnyp]

Thanks dingo Excellent advice from a wise head Lets hope the membership up and down the country liven up and get there acts together before it really is to late and our pensions are well and truely shafted

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Thing is the branches need a kick up the proverbial if they are not passing on the information. Thats the Job of HQ as most of us are not full time CWU officers or reps and have very little time out of work to spend time chasing our own branches. HQ has to get the branches to start informing the members more actively and more regularly. If that means by passing them and sending members information about what's going on directly then they should do it.

I attended the Manchester demo as an ordinary member and was embarrassed to find that only 4 reps/officers from my branch attended and they did not bring the branch banner. Yet Scotland and London branches did and they had to travel for 4 hours not a mere 30 minutes like I did.

The only way you get strong support from the members is to have a bad manager that keeps attacking (figuratively) the membership or to have more active branch officers.

I also think London is a little lucky in some respects as they have good public transport (honest) and a higher concentration of offices than most of the country and this shows as they are probably the most active area in the Union. If we could have branches like that round the rest of the country the Union would be much more powerful, and more much supported than it is. Perhaps nationally the Union could gee up the branches and hopefully get the membership more active.

I also think nationally the Union could communicate much more with ordinary members, I have tried about 4 times a year for the past 4 years to get email updates from the Unions website and I get the message that I am now registered for updates and news - yet nary an email arrives. Yes I know I can log onto the website and read up any subject and this I do, but to get more feedback and support the email/communication systems needs to be more pro-active than it is.

[BELIAL]

Very well put TBT .
Don't forget "fortress London" things look and feel different outside the stockade. By a process of attrition you will end up isolated.
Maybe the devil is in the detail,perhaps any negativity/criticism should be viewed as a useful insight and valuable resource?

[Big Daz]

TBT

I have the same problem with news updates being emailed across, they never happen. I get the LTB'S but anything else has a 0.01% chance of turning up despite signing up to email updates on news.

[Martin Walsh]

True blue and big Daz your right comms do need to be improved at cwu hqs. However each branch were asked at Northampton to attempt to get 5% of each units members email address so they could provide rapid information as independent experts sugguest if you can supply the opinon formers of each unit with up to date information they will then spread the word in each unit. Has your branch either done this or started to do this.

Moreover each Branch is not isolated in this campaign there are two pec members allocated to each region along with the regional secreatary the Divsional reps, regional parcel orgainsors and terrirtoal counters reps on each steering group. The steering group should be assisting the branchs in comms and ensuring they are campaigning politcally and industirally. Branch`s also normally have a branch secretary on part or full time release along with the area reps. Moreover each branch has a rebate each month to assist in the running of the branch including this campaign. On top of this each branch has a politcal fund which they can use to either release people to assist in the campaign or use it to help the campaign.

I can understand the call for Branch`s to be pulled into order but its not as easy as that as branch`s pride themselves on their independence and do not like CWU HQs acting as big brother as reps in branch`s have been elected by their branch membership.

Belial i was not trying to be derisive far from it we gave our document to every branch in the country so they could taylor make it to their own cirmcumstances and many have . Yes it is easier to get around in London and it does help but the other ingrediant is that we work hard at is comms in London at divisonal and branch level and our members respond to that.

Look in 2003 and the lead into the John Keggie dave ward this union was split and in danger of becoming fragmented. However as someone who is in a position to judge i think all parts of the union are closer now then any time in the last 20 years. The reason why is simply we have all had our issues burslem, bristol , mordon, streatham, crewe, northern ireland and we have displayed unity to eachover in those struggles.

We have to now make sure that we unite and campaign as one for the saving of our pension scheme and our industry

[POSTMAN]

The negativity on this sites never ceases to amaze me !!

Depends on what negativity we're talking about here,i've obviously been on the site since late 2006 and being in London what i have read on here regarding the rest of the country in that time hurts.
If we're talking about Royal Mail negativity it is very much warranted,i've probably read every thread and post as has most of the regulars and some of the stuff beggars belief.

As you've mentioned the London branches seem very strong,down our way we've never flexed up,never covered for one another and to be honest apart from 1 colleague moving to another office only to be moved back the next day we haven't touched on any of the enablers and yes we've got the money.

I'm on a 4 day week and yes we get the mare days but the the job is a joy to have.

Regarding the CWU HQ comms and negativity,you've given us more info in your few posts than they have since the start of all this,therefore lies the problem.

When you have reps coming on here and asking basic questions then we're in trouble as well.

Maybe the London div boys should meet with the other div's more often and get this lack of comms sorted.
Then the guys on here can moved forward without the frustration they feel and pass it on as well.

[Big Daz]

Dingo


The answer is yes, we have email address for some of the membership within the branch and in my D.O we are to the 5% mark.

Every year we send the branch members a request form for a diary and we always ask for their email address as well.

My D.O isnt exactly massive and the union notice board is in the tea room/canteen so the mbrs have to go past it to get their hot drinks, cans of coke,crisps,choclate bars etc etc out of the vending machines.

Every branch rep/officer who went to the northampton briefing from my branch wrote up a report which were sent out via email, hard copy and put on the branch website.

[andy2007]

The negativity on this sites never ceases to amaze me !!

Your negativity is part of what is holding the cwu back as i call them the canteen cowboys always sniping but never leading anything.

Look the phase 4 joint working parties have harldly met and are a million miles away from agreeing anything let alone monthly pay. The fact is that phase 1 and 2 was what everyone has concentrated on and most of the joint working parties have met just 3 or 4 times !! In any case if and at this stage its a big if there is an agreement on any issues which the joint agreement covers then the membership will have their say via a democartic ballot of the membership.

Moreover those who refer to be let down by pensions what has your branch done to raise this issue to the point where the cwu believe they can get a yes vote ?

I was at the Northampton briefing and if it was not for London their would have not been a debate on pensions. Why is that is it because other branches have not showed leadership on this issue or is it that the members are not up for it but they certainly were not banging down the doors to get a ballot on the matter. I was also at the Northampton briefing in febraury where branchs perfered to do another consultation ballot rather launch a ballot the membership for industrial action.

The point is that in London we have mounted a campaign on pensions and believe if the ballot was called we would be in a good position to get a yes vote but others are not in that position for a viairty of reasons. Some Branch`s are facing mail centre closures and that is their piority , some have not done the work and others need more time. You all belong to branch`s what are you doing to assist your branch in the campign on pensions ?

Snipping and criticsing on this site does not get us anywhere in the long run. The CWU can only ballot on pensions when its believes it will deliver a yes vote and as much as i hate to say it we not at the stage where we would get a yes vote !! I have no axe to grind as i have long since campaigned for a fight to overturn Royal Mail`s exective action and get our final salery pension back.

I have criticised CWU Hqs numerous times for the lack of a membership campaign but that was on the basis of the fact we need to unite the members in opposition to what Royal Mail have done on pensions. There is still time despite the appointment of mandleson to force the right settlement on pensions. The question is will you help achieve that or will you destroy the message by being negative and anti cwu hq ?

Finally some of you were very critical of pay and mod and the scare stories at the time were horrific but have they proved true ?

The fact is that we recieve two percentage rises and two lump sums for very little change. To the point where all the managers who were directly involved in the deal have either been sacked or have left Green , Mcarthy, wilson ,melvin , barrie, bachlor and of course leighton . The reasons for all of them going is that the cwu once again conned them in a similar way to what we did under the way forward and fit to deliever is that we took the money up front and then agreed to very little change in return.

Can anyone really say that pay and mod has delieved what the bussiness wanted and thought they were going to achieve ?

So it is time this site was used as positve in helping lead the campaign on the above rather then snipe and moan as its really does not move our members forward.

No doubt i will get lots of sniping comments in return but pehaps we can have a sensible discussion on how to unite the cwu in pursance of getting the final salery back and dfending the industry we work in from a joint venture !

Dingo, I may be showing my ignorance here: But I was under the impression, that the Joint Working Groups. Were put in place to work out HOW TO IMPLEMENT Monthly Pay. Rather than decide whether to have it or not. If so, it's not something that we can now stop. Unless we break the Agreement.

It may look like I'm scare mongering. But I've no intention of doing so. I'm just trying to be realistic about the situation.

[Martin Walsh]

Andy it does say under the reward joint working party How to implement monthly pay along with other issues. However the reward joint working party has hardly met and we are miles away from any firm proposals.

The fact is the objectives of the joint working parties allows for consultation and negotiation in order to produce national agreements. None of the joint working groups are near a position where negotiation is neccesary. In any case any national agreement which comes out will be subject to an indivdual membership ballot.

However in my opinion these joint working parties will end up going nowhere in the same way those of you who were around in the employee agenda dispute will recall one of the main resolutions was a number of joint working groups were set up on teamworking and monthly pay and delievery issues and which you guessed it produce nothing and that was back in 1996.

[Martin Walsh]

Linkinpark i was not accussing all posters of being negative but a few are fact.

Yes I have only made 17 contributions but i like to think i do other things to assist the members and move the issues on rather then do this on this board.

I have been in the post office for 25 years and a union official for 18 and believe me every year we have had job cuts whether it was 5% cuts under public sector pay freeze in the 1990s or cadr or fit to deliver and jobs will go in the future thats a fact.

Now with regards to pay well i have to say that pay has gone up more in the last 5 years then any other corresponding period. Off course its never enough and we would like it to increase more but it has improved.

Now on pensions we have a clear policy to ensure that we use all means at our disposal to get the final salery scheme back. In regards to working longer again thats something royal mail imposed and we need to change.

The point i was trying to make is why dont we use this board as a lauchpad to kickstart the fight rather then keep turning in on eachother and the cwu why dont we attempt something a bit radical and get the membeship demanding action as their are enough branchs on here to start that move !!

[andy2007]

RMC can, and indeed HAS, been used to kick start campaigns.

The main problem (as I see it) is that there is far too much apathy in the Membership. We're lucky, if we get 30 people turning up to our Union Meetings. And we have 3 Shifts!

How do we get people to believe that there is any point in turning up to the meetings?
I wish I knew! We've tried, and failed, for some time now. The general concensus, seems to be that they don't believe that they can achieve anything, by turning up. It was bad enough, before last year's Strikes. But it's even harder to convince people now.

[morrrany]

Linkinpark i was not accussing all posters of being negative but a few are fact.

Yes I have only made 17 contributions but i like to think i do other things to assist the members and move the issues on rather then do this on this board.

I have been in the post office for 25 years and a union official for 18 and believe me every year we have had job cuts whether it was 5% cuts under public sector pay freeze in the 1990s or cadr or fit to deliver and jobs will go in the future thats a fact.

Now with regards to pay well i have to say that pay has gone up more in the last 5 years then any other corresponding period. Off course its never enough and we would like it to increase more but it has improved.

Now on pensions we have a clear policy to ensure that we use all means at our disposal to get the final salery scheme back. In regards to working longer again thats something royal mail imposed and we need to change.

The point i was trying to make is why dont we use this board as a lauchpad to kickstart the fight rather then keep turning in on eachother and the cwu why dont we attempt something a bit radical and get the membeship demanding action as their are enough branchs on here to start that move !!

[tommythreesheds]

I second that -