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Employment Tribunal

Got a question for a CWU Rep? And all CWU related matters.
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Employment Tribunal

Post by norbert »

Tall Guy wrote:
sunshine.on.leith wrote:The replies are excellent guys, but there's 1 thing i'm not quite sure on. "witnesses". Can I take witnesses along on the day, who can back up parts if not all of my story. And can i expect RM to have all the managers who have dealt with the case to be in attendance? Or is it just a 1v1 situ.
RM will usually have the dismissing manager plus the Appeals manager. They won't have anyone else unless you ask now through the tribunal for other people to be present.

You will need to provide a witness statement in advance to the tribunal and to RM of any other people you want to appear.

Don't call anyone unless it is absolutely necessary to prove a particular point. I'm guessing that you've already had your tribunal date set and the chairman won't take kindly to having a bus load of witnesses if it's scheduled for one day only!!

If you talk to the Tribunal secretary straight away, then you'll find out if you're too late. if you feel that you need the witnesses then you can ask for a reschedulign so that their evidence can be heard, but once again, you are risking a "tut,tut" from the chairman if it's at late notice.
that's the problem it's turned into what they call a vexed case - one manager , the appeal manager under orders to back him up and a Solicitor probably to put polish on things v yourself

probably why the Union were running scared - Kay did have good evidence and her case like at Burslem was political, the union had to act otherwise there would be scores of tribunals for stitched up reps and activists

one thing about :lfo his 80's fear uncertainity and doubt style works - he's a good puppetmaster ! - and that's the way to soften people/ the union up - RM used to use it a bit before though - vicious rumours etc - problem was people got wise to it .
MURDERERS. Need to dispose of a body? Simply parcel it up and post it to yourself via DHL. You will never see it again.
sunshine.on.leith
Posts: 24
Joined: 17 Oct 2007, 20:19
Location: Dundee East

Employment Tribunal

Post by sunshine.on.leith »

I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle
brothermagrew
Posts: 3015
Joined: 06 Aug 2007, 16:38
Gender: Male
Location: Shares a border with England to the south.

Employment Tribunal

Post by brothermagrew »

sunshine.on.leith wrote:I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle

Then if you are happy with the outcome fair doos.... splash out on a Proclaimers album to while away the wee hours. Treat it as a result. :Applause :Applause
"Today’s workplace has become heartless and soulless. Employees are seen as units of labour, automatons, functionaries, objects for achieving designated tasks, and as costs to be minimised."
k979aaa
Posts: 12578
Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
Gender: Male
Location: THE NORTH

Employment Tribunal

Post by k979aaa »

sunshine.on.leith wrote:I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle
Look only you can decide this and it will not be the only WIN but a win for all people treated such as you!. But what a sh*t way to treat postworker's they know these hardworking people have no case too answer and is royalmails way of bullying staff to do anything they can to get the job done at reduced cost to the buisness!. Let's hope this costs the buisness big time!. :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Employment Tribunal

Post by norbert »

k979aaa wrote:
sunshine.on.leith wrote:I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle
Look only you can decide this and it will not be the only WIN but a win for all people treated such as you!. But what a sh*t way to treat postworker's they know these hardworking people have no case too answer and is royalmails way of bullying staff to do anything they can to get the job done at reduced cost to the buisness!. Let's hope this costs the buisness big time!. :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
the arrogance was breathtaking - " It's not whether you were guilty or not - it's whether RM followed procedure "
MURDERERS. Need to dispose of a body? Simply parcel it up and post it to yourself via DHL. You will never see it again.
faithlilly
Posts: 17
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 00:51
Gender: Female

Employment Tribunal

Post by faithlilly »

norbert wrote:
k979aaa wrote:
sunshine.on.leith wrote:I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle
Look only you can decide this and it will not be the only WIN but a win for all people treated such as you!. But what a sh*t way to treat postworker's they know these hardworking people have no case too answer and is royalmails way of bullying staff to do anything they can to get the job done at reduced cost to the buisness!. Let's hope this costs the buisness big time!. :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
the arrogance was breathtaking - " It's not whether you were guilty or not - it's whether RM followed procedure "
Norbert when you are talking procedure are you talking about statutary procedure or RM's own internal procedures and if they haven't followed their own internal procedures what are the chances of success at an ET ?
kay_thebigbird
Posts: 200
Joined: 28 Feb 2008, 17:14

Employment Tribunal

Post by kay_thebigbird »

faithlilly wrote:
norbert wrote:
k979aaa wrote:
sunshine.on.leith wrote:I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle
Look only you can decide this and it will not be the only WIN but a win for all people treated such as you!. But what a sh*t way to treat postworker's they know these hardworking people have no case too answer and is royalmails way of bullying staff to do anything they can to get the job done at reduced cost to the buisness!. Let's hope this costs the buisness big time!. :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
the arrogance was breathtaking - " It's not whether you were guilty or not - it's whether RM followed procedure "
Norbert when you are talking procedure are you talking about statutary procedure or RM's own internal procedures and if they haven't followed their own internal procedures what are the chances of success at an ET ?
Very high, Chairman's take a very dim view to serious mistake's made in procedure when it come's to dismissal, the employer can't afford to get it wrong they have to cover everything by the book,or a good Lawyer/Barrister will spot all the mistake's straight away just as my legal team did with my case. :wink:
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Employment Tribunal

Post by norbert »

faithlilly wrote:
norbert wrote:
k979aaa wrote:
sunshine.on.leith wrote:I got a call earlier today, with the offer i was looking for. Agreed to mutually end it there. Dunno if its the right thing, but i'm happy with the outcome. WIN WIN as far as i'm concerned.

Cheers for everything, and hope your info helps someone. Cheers guys, cyber-drinks all round :chuckle
Look only you can decide this and it will not be the only WIN but a win for all people treated such as you!. But what a sh*t way to treat postworker's they know these hardworking people have no case too answer and is royalmails way of bullying staff to do anything they can to get the job done at reduced cost to the buisness!. Let's hope this costs the buisness big time!. :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
the arrogance was breathtaking - " It's not whether you were guilty or not - it's whether RM followed procedure "
Norbert when you are talking procedure are you talking about statutary procedure or RM's own internal procedures and if they haven't followed their own internal procedures what are the chances of success at an ET ?
I was quoting what the RM solicitor is alleged to have said -it sounds if he is parroting off the RM line

I agree you have to have an immaculate paperwork trail otherwise it's the employer in the dock not the employee and yes I agree re the difference between statutary procedure and the RM in wonderland internal procedure - I suspect it's why RM have to hire expensive Barristers to make things " look straight "

RM's internal procedure is based on questions requiring " desired RM answers " - so yes that's why there was a motion at CWU Conference complaining about " RM " moral " crusades " - calling investigations and procedure corrupt as it was beyond the realms of coincidence that reps and activists tended to be on trumped up charges .

The key mistake there appears to be was not to interview " material witnesses " - RM think that if a group of managers etc swear blind that somebody is guilty or done something - that's apparently good enough .

At one time if someone was put on a dodgy H&B charge or there was anamolies and the person charged would take it outside of RM - RM sometimes would back down OR it would go to a panel with an independent element - the RM case would be full of holes - the local managers would get slated for laying things on too thick - it might take 6 months + for the Union to get someone back but it's worse now .

The orders are is not to undermine local managers hence the bloody minded attitude - it sounds if it's easier just to throw money at people ? - seen this happen with a " new broom " manager in a ex nationalized industry - people got sacked for first offences - they even paid a rep that had been caught fiddling a Sunday on Time & 3/4 £900 as procedure hadn't been followed - there was also payments of £1500 - 16/17 years ago
MURDERERS. Need to dispose of a body? Simply parcel it up and post it to yourself via DHL. You will never see it again.