shift managers power

[norbert]

Update, tonight before break they did an early dispatch(which i did), when i returned from break a york was full and four bags were left leaning up against full york which had no straps done up, therefore i didnt think i could take it out. shift manager asked me what was going on and i said same problem as yesterday and it was unsafe.

He then had a go at me, he said something along the lines, the job you are doing is not a hard one, youre not here for the main dispatch (I told them that!!) and that if i wasent willing to work the way that he wanted me too he would have find me another job to do and put me somewhere else.

I replied that from day one i was not the right person to do that job as my break clashed with the time for the main dispatch and that i was upset that he had asked me to break rules which as far as i am aware is a H&S matter. He then said a meeting was to be arranged tommorrow with my shift rep (who has not been in all week, wonder if my shift manager realises!!) The meeting is to decide were he thinks i should be moved i think

Can anyone advise me on another matter, is it fair for me to say i cant move yorks if the straps are not done up?(only bottom one is done up)

not being funny, but why don't you do the straps up and wheel it out? You could change your break time to allow for the despatch as well?

what wonderful people skills ? - RM's " Our new way of working " has a lot to answer for as quell surprise - everything is badly geared

I've spoken to people who've worked for other parcel companies and they've never seen anything so badly geared even before - Our Way - the problem in them places is that there's still the 60's " My Empire " arms folded mentality with the sections and their little territories - one stands there and the other one has to be "his bitch " if you will - then there's the mandatory mass panic and failures - then SM's & above are threatened with the sack by Area for all the failures

Absolutely wonderful - you wouldn't expect anything less

[drevil1969uk]

@trueblueterrier perfectly put thank you

@tallguy the problem being that as stated before while doing that you have to jiggle some straps and they way the bags/parcels are loaded they could fall off and also the bags sometimes are over weight!! Why should i cahnge my break time to help them out? what favour would i get in return do you think?

[Tman]

You could of course transpose the situation to a machine and would work on any Machine that has a safety guard which is worn or damaged, or perhaps is not secured properly.


A sense of perspective is needed.
An operator using a machine as you describe very likely will injure himself badly, but an unstrapped York,though not desirable, is hardly in the same category. I'd rather try and stop a sliding mail bag with my hand than a running machine powered by several multi-horsepower electric motors.

I would say that with a stable load I would strap up a Yorky, but if I felt that it was unstable and I still went ahead and started to strap it up, and then a 11kg bag slipped and struck me on the head and injured me -
You must have very tall Yorks in your place, unless you're 4 feet tall....

[andy2007]

Drevil1969uk, you could try contacting the Area H&S Rep. I know it'll be too late for this meeting. But he/she could appeal against a decision to move, and/or discipline you.

If you are moved, because you refused to bend the H&S rules. Then in my opinion, that would mean that they are actively discouraging people from following the SSOW. Which is a very serious matter.

Personally, I'd put in a grevance against the Manager, if you are penalised in any way. As I've said earlier: We need more people like you, if we ever hope to improve safety.

[Tall Guy]

@tallguy the problem being that as stated before while doing that you have to jiggle some straps and they way the bags/parcels are loaded they could fall off and also the bags sometimes are over weight!! Why should i cahnge my break time to help them out? what favour would i get in return do you think?

I think you can take the H&S line too far to be honest. It's not unsafe to do up the straps on a full York and if you took the line that some bags are overweight, then you'd never lift or touch a bag and the whole system would grind to a halt.

H&S arguments need to be had on the basis that there is an unacceptable risk to someone's health. There is a risk to Health every time we do anything, it is whether it's unacceptable or not that is the key. It can be the case that if you raise issues that aren't vital or genuinely unacceptable then the ones that are get devalued.

[drevil1969uk]

due to no support from my union i had two options last night at work, be taken off my duty or stay on it and change my breaks. No favours in return like not watching me etc. I also found out that my shift manager lied and accused me of things that i havent done, therefore he was keeping a close eye on me

@tman some people are taller and have to bend over to strap the yorks!! the yorks are also being stacked over the top as well and not correctly. You telling me 11kg doesnt do injury if it falls on your head or top of your shoulders? taking away the fact you get glass bottles etc in bags with sharp edges and god knows what else our bags are not see through, are yours?

@andy2007 Due to lack of support from my rep my hand has been forced now about i still came back even after doing them a favour and found a york stupidly stacked!! am i allowed to take pics at work? im getting conflicting things told to me? I have considered taking out a grievence especially as he has liad big time to my rep about things im supposed to of done.

@tallguy i have to agree with you there if i presumed every york was overweight then nothing would get moved etc, but this is about the stacking too, like the bags are more than likely not overweight, BUT if the bags are stacked incorrectly and the straps are not done up AND there was a heavy bag then there is a problem now all i have asked is that they strap up as they go along and stack bags correctly from day one, not alot i dont think, i have my own work dont need extra cos of lazyness or not giving a s**t about there collegue. I think that stacking a york correctly is common sense and is a basic H&S thingy, it doesnt bother them as they arent trucking a thing but it bothers me and as it does effect it. Due to no straps and ridiculously poor stacking alot of heavy bags have fallen from the top therfore surely thats justification to say that its a problem. I really am not doing it to be a pain just want my basics. Got a favour in return for changing my breaks last night, got the shift manager watching me even harder!!!!

[bogstandard]

Of course you can take pics, you are gatherinng evdence to support your case.
Surely the bottom line is you want something done and the issue rectified, whether you continue to work in this area needs to be irrelevant.
you need to make it clear that you are not interested in where you work or what you are asked to do, you want the area tidied up and you're not changing your m/r, the start finish times and when your m/r is, is what you've signed for not where you work. You need to be able to remove what they percieve to be bargaining chips from the table. If you can't do this then you will pay.

[andy2007]

I have actually used pictures I took at Work, to get things done about H&S issues. In fact, a senior Manager, has specifically asked for Photos to be included (whenever possible) with Near Miss Reports. However, they don't permit Videos, because too many were ending up on YouTube.

There was the infamous case, where my H&S Rep took a short Video of a dangerous Trailer. Rather than a lot of individual Photos (it showed the context better). When he showed it to the Manager, he was told to delete it, or face disciplinary action. The Manager actually stood watching him delete it, and even checked that he had no other Videos of RM Premises on his Phone. All of this took place on the Bays, in front of several of us! Having said that: They did log it off (not much choice really!)

One thing you do need to be careful of, however: If you're using a Camera Phone, be careful where you stand, while you take the Photos. It's a very debatable point, whether you are using a Camera, which happens to be built into a Phone. Or using your Phone. Which in certain areas, would be a breach of H&S. If possible, you should bring in a separate Camera. So they can't try accusing you of breaching H&S to take the Photos.

[drevil1969uk]

@bogstandrad i went to my union rep to ask for advice with regards to my duty and was told i could only be moved elsewhere or stay on my job and change my break, my hands were tied it seems

@andy2007 If managerment want to check my phone for videos i would welcome it with union official present to prove no videos were taken. But good advice

[mailsort6]

I thought that you should never use broken yorkies? If the straps are missing espeacially the top and middle straps this is dangerous whether the bags or trays are stacked properly (these bags will move about during transportion), our Health and Safety Rep pulls posties/managers up for this. What you should do 'drevil' is try and get information from the CWU website on how yorkies should be used from the H & S section or ask your H & S Rep for a copy. and when the managers starting getting onto you presenti then with the documents. Yorkies without straps are classed as a broken yorks in my office and are never sent out of the building until they are fixed.

[axeman]

A sense of perspective is needed.
An operator using a machine as you describe very likely will injure himself badly, but an unstrapped York,though not desirable, is hardly in the same category. I'd rather try and stop a sliding mail bag with my hand than a running machine powered by several multi-horsepower electric motors.

And thats the problem we face if royal fail think they can get away with a lapse of procedure 'maybe a little one' then the next thing you know they will try another but next one might just cause an injury ..if it's not '''desirable''' or 100% safe then royal fails managers must in all cases follow the rules on one that is safe

[Tman]

Errr, yeah.

[drevil1969uk]

@mailsort6 The problem that i was refering to at the begining of the post isnt about broken yorks/straps, its the fact yorks are being filled and staff are not strapping them as they go along and then as i am the trucker being told to move it when i the bags arent stacked properly and yorks arent strapped.

@tman i dont get why you put err, yeah? trying to provoke perhaps?

@axeman i agree give em an inch and they take a bleeding mile

[bogstandard]

drevil, your rep is wrong whether they know it or not they are wrong.
When you signed for the duty you singed for the start and finish times, any allowances that the start or finish times may attract, if it is a professional drivers duty it will attract a higher basic, similarly you may not of wished to drive the bigger vehicles or drive vehicles at all, and when you take your m/r is also a contributing factor in the decision making process. This would be my argument, the question is how far are you prepared to go, seek advice from your branch and then tell your rep to do it or HQ.

[Tman]

@tman i dont get why you put err, yeah? trying to provoke perhaps?

Maybe because the original statement was meaningless? An unstrapped York means "royal fail" can progress to bigger lapses in H&S?

Err yeah.