Managers suspended at Edinburgh Mail Centre for hiding mail

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 23 Sep 2008, 22:09

[quote="axeman"]This has got to be far more widespread than the offices already involved as the two posters who reguarly say 'mail is down' .

"Far more widespread than the offices already involved as the two posters who regularly say "mail is down"......what? What do the two posters do? Are they involved somehow too?

Meaningless both as an opinion and a sentence.

F0zziebear · Post by **F0zziebear** » 24 Sep 2008, 08:59

Belial, you don't need to be a on daily delivery for the last two years to know what you are talking about. If you apply this logic then you shouldn't be commenting on any matters outside your own delivery round. You should not pass any comment on collections, sorting, transportation, marketing, senior management as you are not one. That logic just does not apply.

Maybe take a moment and listen to those who have worked at a national level, and who have access to national data compiled by independent organisations.

You should also be aware that RM have to put in an RPI -1% formula, which means that prices of mail across the various products has to come down in real terms as dictated by the regulator.

I am not saying that mail volumes are not rising in specific locations, but nationally it is falling. Urban areas where there are higher concentrations of people, and increased population may well force volumes up, that is called using common sense and some lateral thinking. However, when you compile the figures nationally the volumes are falling. On top of this volumes historically follow the fortunes of the economy and fall in line. Now you ma ysay that volumes should have been rising over the last ten years. Unfortunately the movement to other forms of communication has impacted this, but conversely the huge increase in public sector mail campaigns has hidden some of this trend. As you can see from my post, the make-up of mail has changed over the last ten years. Let's see what happens to volumes over the next 12 months.

As stated quite clearly before, even if you believe mail volumes are rising, be it locally or nationally the revenues coming into the company are declining and with such high fixed costs RM has problems (unless the USO is subsidised by the government).

Night Tonic · Post by **Night Tonic** » 24 Sep 2008, 09:59

Alas this message is entirely wasted on those using pouch weight as an indicator of profitability and mail volume, and those who think they know all based on what Fred said while he was having a fag out the back. The reality is that the sorting structure, designed to handle a different kind of mail, is already becoming out of step with what is handled today and why RM has to restructure sorting offices.

You could compare it to a garage geared up to repair minis when most of the local trade is for transit vans and in the case of competitors, its the equivalent of polishing transit vans that have been serviced elsewhere. DSA is simply tying us over until we have the right equipment cited in the right places, handling mail we can make money on. Like any service subject to regulation, it has to adapt to it - not cross its fingers and hope for the best. Without DSA we'd be in even bigger trouble than we are now and as deregulation isn't going to go away, we have to move with it.

F0zziebear · Post by **F0zziebear** » 24 Sep 2008, 11:35

Nightonic, you speak sense and sum up what I've been trying to say, unfortunately some do not.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 24 Sep 2008, 14:53

F0zziebear wrote:A couple of facts to throw in amongst the emotional and inaccruate information being posted.

As posties (whom I assume most of you are) it is highly likely you won't feel volumes are falling. Why? Quite simply your rounds have become bigger as rounds have decreased, this means that you odn't feel the decline.

I think when you make statements like the above you should have a little knowledge to back it up. You seem to assume that most posties are halfwits who have failed to notice ,or take into account the fact that their walks have grown when they state their volumes are up. "Quite simply" not true, or inaccurate.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 24 Sep 2008, 15:40

Would it be rude of me to ask the same question that i have asked a thousand times on here and yet i have never had an answer!!!

POSTMAN wrote:I've said it before and i'll say it again.........
When a DSM stands in front of me and tells me the traffic figures of the day and it works out about 500 letters per frame and the frames we're having the conversation in front of (average 550 calls) are bulging with mail.....................
Then summin aint right!!!

axeman · Post by **axeman** » 24 Sep 2008, 16:03

Ah postman you have those rose tinted specs on again

.... most fittings are now the rm 2000 which by default is a lot larger if the mail has fallen to such a level as the two ronnies suggest then maybe it's time to go back to the old fittings and then we'd have more room for more lightbulbs

on the other hand the profit that royal fail once recived is reduced but they still charge for dsa so no big deal there maybe a true account of the figgures would be an needed to see who's been cooking the books

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 24 Sep 2008, 16:16

Yes I would not mind Postmans question being answered specially by the 2 ronnies :cfo :lfo . We have been told that traffic is down on last year, when I had the same duty, yet I have been out longer and have cut off more or claimed more OT this year. I have also had the same experience as Postman in my own DO.

The biggest problem most delivery posties have is that their daily perception does not fit the published "facts" yet we are expected to believe these same self facts, and to top it off we get "talked down" to because we don't accept the official line. To be honest its a complete turn around for me I was in the Forces for 16 years and never would have thought of questioning an official line, yet after only 2 years in and 3 years later I find myself questioning whether Royal Mail is being absolutely truthful.

. Its a strange world.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 24 Sep 2008, 17:15

The biggest problem most delivery posties have is that their daily perception does not fit the published "facts" yet we are expected to believe these same self facts, and to top it off we get "talked down" to because we don't accept the official line.
Some don't accept the "official line" (whatever THAT may mean) purely because it's come from RM; allegedly any RM message must by definition be suspect. Fair enough if staff wish to play the old cynic, but then maybe they shouldn't dismiss other's input out of hand.
Where our automation used to run virtually non-stop for 24 hours a day, there are now substantial down-times on all three shifts.
Where our CFCs used to process 200-300,000 per lateshift, they now process LESS than 100,000 combined most days.
Where we used to process DataCard, Southern Electric and others every day from 13.00 to 16.00, due to the loss of these bulk postings they now start on stamped mail and lates finish earlier.

Of course, the usual suspects will be quick to say the same-old same old ("FFS you got a hidden agenda or summat" eh TBT) or some pithy but irrelevant one-liner, but that's reality. Wish it wasn't, but it is.
Doesn't matter to me how stuffed full your frames are, how many bags you now take out, how much mail your managers under-estimate or how you don't believe "the two Ronnies", volumes are down, and they're down a lot over the last couple of years.

Broxi51 · Post by **Broxi51** » 24 Sep 2008, 17:55

Tman wrote:The biggest problem most delivery posties have is that their daily perception does not fit the published "facts" yet we are expected to believe these same self facts, and to top it off we get "talked down" to because we don't accept the official line.
Some don't accept the "official line" (whatever THAT may mean) purely because it's come from RM; allegedly any RM message must by definition be suspect. Fair enough if staff wish to play the old cynic, but then maybe they shouldn't dismiss other's input out of hand.
Where our automation used to run virtually non-stop for 24 hours a day, there are now substantial down-times on all three shifts.
Where our CFCs used to process 200-300,000 per lateshift, they now process LESS than 100,000 combined most days.
Where we used to process DataCard, Southern Electric and others every day from 13.00 to 16.00, due to the loss of these bulk postings they now start on stamped mail and lates finish earlier.

Of course, the usual suspects will be quick to say the same-old same old ("FFS you got a hidden agenda or summat" eh TBT) or some pithy but irrelevant one-liner, but that's reality. Wish it wasn't, but it is.
Doesn't matter to me how stuffed full your frames are, how many bags you now take out, how much mail your managers under-estimate or how you don't believe "the two Ronnies", volumes are down, and they're down a lot over the last couple of years.

Sorry for being ignorant on these matters having only been on deliveries and not in a MC but what does a CFC process? Is it only RM's mail or is it DSA as well?
Could delivery postmens interpretation of volume include both the CFC volume as well as DSA whilst your own figures are purely RM's mail?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 24 Sep 2008, 18:08

Sorry for being ignorant on these matters having only been on deliveries and not in a MC but what does a CFC process?
Collection mail.

Is it only RM's mail or is it DSA as well?
No, DSA doesn't go through the CFCs.

Could delivery postmens interpretation of volume include both the CFC volume as well as DSA whilst your own figures are purely RM's mail.
DSA still goes through MTTs,/IMPs and NP4000s, so is still counted.

LDV 350 · Post by **LDV 350** » 24 Sep 2008, 18:13

Tman, i know where you are coming from, although you have increased down time due to losing contracts, the delivery side of things haven't decreased because the winning contractors dont deliver the hard earned mail contracts, the delivery postie is continually being loaded like a pack horse with heavier bags whilst being told how light our deliveries are these days

bexhil palace · Post by **bexhil palace** » 24 Sep 2008, 18:23

An area manager i was speaking to regarding the amount of mail coming into the
office,told me that he had done a manual check on incoming mail in a similar sized
office over a two week period, and compared it with the MLO figures that were given.
He found that there was a shortfall of around 300 tray's over the two weeks coming into the said office,
when he compared the figures.
I don't know if the mail was letters or flats, but that's quite a discrepancy in anyones language i would think.

Night Tonic · Post by **Night Tonic** » 24 Sep 2008, 18:29

As Tman says, cynicism is a good tool to fill the hours but doesn't change the fact that the type of mail is so different now, and whether you choose to accept it or not, overall volume is down year on year. I think Fozzie has explained the way it is calculated in great detail and why it is down, even if that doesn't seem to match with what we're carrying. Postal companies definately see growth, but its not in the stuff they carried traditionally and you won't find one operator that hasn't diversified what they do just to stay alive. Postal delivery is a struggling industry all over and we'll see more and more mergers and buyouts as operators go super-size to ride out the downturn. No one likes doing D2D or DSA but without it we're shafted, even if we don't make a fortune on it. See it as a prop if you like.

The rest of the debate is now left to Fred smoking a fag out the back. Chances are though, Fred won't have a job if he doesn't listen up or maintains a closed mind.

Barry Trotter · Post by **Barry Trotter** » 24 Sep 2008, 19:16

anyway,back to the original story,does anyone have an update on what has become of the managers who have been suspended?