Urgent need for resistance in the post

[Night Tonic]

And its not gonna change either.

[BELIAL]

That's what the Romans thought

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine. ~Robert C. Gallagher

Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are. ~Bertold Brecht

[borders]

And its not gonna change either.

Why ? you are getting on a bit NT yes ? think of all changes in your lifetime , a nanosecond in terms of the lifetime of our planet. in Venezuela and latin america , at this moment in time there is a class struggle of epic proportions , revolutionary in fact. many poor countries in the world are questioning Capitalism . while the rich countries continue to compete against each other economically and military ,it puts great pressure on their hegemony. the working class has shown its dissatisfaction in the past and it will do so in the future and to say things will never change , who knows ??

[k979aaa]

And its not gonna change either.

And god help us all if that is your token resistance and if "tman" and "cantypeandshouts" and a few other's you all could have the resistance of the teletubbie's you will have :lfo & :cfo quakeing in thier boot's!.

[Tman]

And its not gonna change either.

And god help us all if that is your token resistance and if "tman" and "cantypeandshouts" and a few other's you all could have the resistance of the teletubbie's you will have :lfo & :cfo quakeing in thier boot's!.

Still making needless and groundless assumptions then?

[BELIAL]

Nope I'm not going to mention the free enterprise:free trade : the triumph of the modern market economy

[borders]

There have been some truly astonishing reactions to the economic chaos that hit world markets this week.

US leaders have rushed to assure the world that the overall US economy is fine. Jeff Randall of the Daily Telegraph is one of many arguing that the collapse of Lehman brothers, the fourth biggest investment bank in the US, demonstrates that capitalism is working.

But this is not just a financial crisis. Neither is it simply a problem caused by lack of regulation.

This is a crisis of the system – of capitalism.

While some companies continue to report obscene levels of profits, in reality profit rates across the system have never been restored to the level of the 1950s and 1960s.

In recent years this was masked by a speculative bubble. But as it became increasingly clear that all was not well, panic set in and financiers pulled the rug on investments that had once seemed sound.

Despite their assurances, there is clearly panic running through the US ruling class.

George Bush’s government spent billions to bail out financial institutions such as Bear Stearns and to nationalise Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. They are letting Lehman Brothers go to the wall because if they keep spending billions the Federal Reserve risks going bust.

The stark truth is that is no one knows where this economic crisis is going or which other financial giant will fall next. But we do know that those who run this system will try to ensure that it is not the chief executives, bankers or government ministers that will pay the price.

Yet these are the very people who have presided over a casino economy in which some of the key players have finally gone bust.

The idea that the British economy can somehow escape this crisis, a lie peddled until recently by Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, is laughable. Britain has one of the most “liberal” unregulated economies in the world.

New Labour used to proudly boast that the City was the leading global financial market. It is now massively exposed to the bad debts and bankruptcies seen in Monday’s slump.

Britain has always had an internationalised economy with major investments in the US. So it is little surprise there are lurid headlines warning that unemployment might swell by 500,000 in the coming weeks and months.

Redundancies are increasing in Britain – rising 16 percent between April and June this year. Repossessions in the same period were up 24 percent on the previous year.

Meanwhile fuel and energy prices soar as the government tells us to swallow below-inflation pay rises. Millions fear what lies ahead for them and their families.

Many people also understand that economic chaos breeds political crisis which can inflame conflicts such as the recent war in the Caucasus.

Yet all we hear from politicians and media pundits is that there is no alternative to the free market, despite the fact it has created this mess.

In response we need urgently to say that there is an alternative – socialism – based on planning, with workers deciding what is produced and invested rather than City bankers.

At the same time we need to fan every possible flame of resistance because the bottom line for us is that we must not pay for their crisis.

As well as a windfall tax on the profits of the energy companies, we need to fight to tax the rich, to cut arms expenditure and much more.

These are the first steps in fighting for a world where people really do come first, not profits.

[andy2007]

NHS/Health http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies/health.html

Economy http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies/s ... onomy.html

This is just a outline full and detailed policy can be found here http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/index.html

Now I'm really worried! You've shown me something, which I feel I must criticise strongly. According to their Policy on the NHS:
We will introduce a NHS tax to make the level of funding for the NHS transparent for all. There will be the ability to increase taxation locally, if people decide, so that local NHS services can benefit directly, just as the police and schools can at present. We will reduce the level of spending on defence to provide further funds for health care. These changes in funding will allow us to abolish prescription charges.

We already have problems with the "Postcode Lottery", and (in my opinion) it would get far worse, with that particular policy. Although, their policies for reducing the need for NHS treatment. By improving the Nations Health, is very well thought out. But do you see my point, about the dangers of creating problems, or making them worse. Inadvertantly, as a result of working on another problem?
National Politics, are amazingly complex. That's why we need the interplay, of the Party in power at the time, and the Opposition Party. That way (at least in theory), the Government can work on the problems of their time, and have someone with enough authority, to reign them in, should things get out of hand.

It's far from perfect. But it's the best system we have come up with so far.

[Tman]

. in Venezuela and latin america , at this moment in time there is a class struggle of epic proportions , revolutionary in fact. many poor countries in the world are questioning Capitalism . while the rich countries continue to compete against each other economically and military ,it puts great pressure on their hegemony. the working class has shown its dissatisfaction in the past and it will do so in the future and to say things will never change ,
Latin America, eh?
Poor example really; whether the rulers of these desparate countries class themselves as Left or Right wing matters not a jot to the poor devils who live there, as their struggle to survive is the same whoever is in charge.
Hyper inflation, endemic corruption, death squads, they've got the lot.
I expect they learnt many years ago that "class struggles" are only for the "educated" inhabitants of wealthy Western European democracies to crap on about over half of cider, whereas for them "struggle" means feeding the family from day to day.

[BELIAL]

I think you've missed the point tman

[borders]

. in Venezuela and latin america , at this moment in time there is a class struggle of epic proportions , revolutionary in fact. many poor countries in the world are questioning Capitalism . while the rich countries continue to compete against each other economically and military ,it puts great pressure on their hegemony. the working class has shown its dissatisfaction in the past and it will do so in the future and to say things will never change ,
Latin America, eh?
Poor example really; whether the rulers of these desparate countries class themselves as Left or Right wing matters not a jot to the poor devils who live there, as their struggle to survive is the same whoever is in charge.
Hyper inflation, endemic corruption, death squads, they've got the lot.
I expect they learnt many years ago that "class struggles" are only for the "educated" inhabitants of wealthy Western European democracies to crap on about over half of cider, whereas for them "struggle" means feeding the family from day to day.

the poor people and the peasants are supporting Chavez and the right wing fascists are supporting the Oligarchy who are trying to re- take power. Chavez is left wing and when the poor little devils as you like to put it are prepared to give up their lives to support his Government i guess you would say that it DOES matter a jot to them. this is the class struggle happening in Venezuela now --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Latin America's occupied factories and enterprises represent the development of one of the most advanced strategies in defense of the working class and resistance against capitalism and neoliberalism. This new phenomenon catching hold throughout Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Venezuela continues to grow despite market challenges. More than 30,000 Latin American workers are employed at cooperative-run businesses, which were closed down by bosses and reopened by employees.

In Venezuela alone, it is estimated that 1,200 business and factories have been occupied by their workers after bosses and owners abandoned them [1]. In response to the Bolivarian revolution, many oligarchic and foreign investors have fled Venezuela leaving workers out to dry. Venezuela's working class has stood up to the destiny of unemployment and helped to build a road to socialism: taking over ransacked companies, calling for the nationalization and implementing worker self-management. Since 2005, the Venezuelan government passed a number of legal decrees expropriating abandoned factories for workers to start up production. Today in Venezuela some 20 companies have been nationalized and function under worker co-management or control."

[borders]

. in Venezuela and latin america , at this moment in time there is a class struggle of epic proportions , revolutionary in fact. many poor countries in the world are questioning Capitalism . while the rich countries continue to compete against each other economically and military ,it puts great pressure on their hegemony. the working class has shown its dissatisfaction in the past and it will do so in the future and to say things will never change ,
Latin America, eh?
Poor example really; whether the rulers of these desparate countries class themselves as Left or Right wing matters not a jot to the poor devils who live there, as their struggle to survive is the same whoever is in charge.
Hyper inflation, endemic corruption, death squads, they've got the lot.
I expect they learnt many years ago that "class struggles" are only for the "educated" inhabitants of wealthy Western European democracies to crap on about over half of cider, whereas for them "struggle" means feeding the family from day to day.

another point Tman , the reason why they "Struggle" is because of their "Class" , their struggle may be more painful than ours , but they still experience class antagonism just like we do .

[andy2007]

. in Venezuela and latin america , at this moment in time there is a class struggle of epic proportions , revolutionary in fact. many poor countries in the world are questioning Capitalism . while the rich countries continue to compete against each other economically and military ,it puts great pressure on their hegemony. the working class has shown its dissatisfaction in the past and it will do so in the future and to say things will never change ,
Latin America, eh?
Poor example really; whether the rulers of these desparate countries class themselves as Left or Right wing matters not a jot to the poor devils who live there, as their struggle to survive is the same whoever is in charge.
Hyper inflation, endemic corruption, death squads, they've got the lot.
I expect they learnt many years ago that "class struggles" are only for the "educated" inhabitants of wealthy Western European democracies to crap on about over half of cider, whereas for them "struggle" means feeding the family from day to day.

the poor people and the peasants are supporting Chavez and the right wing fascists are supporting the Oligarchy who are trying to re- take power. Chavez is left wing and when the poor little devils as you like to put it are prepared to give up their lives to support his Government i guess you would say that it DOES matter a jot to them. this is the class struggle happening in Venezuela now --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Latin America's occupied factories and enterprises represent the development of one of the most advanced strategies in defense of the working class and resistance against capitalism and neoliberalism. This new phenomenon catching hold throughout Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Venezuela continues to grow despite market challenges. More than 30,000 Latin American workers are employed at cooperative-run businesses, which were closed down by bosses and reopened by employees.

In Venezuela alone, it is estimated that 1,200 business and factories have been occupied by their workers after bosses and owners abandoned them [1]. In response to the Bolivarian revolution, many oligarchic and foreign investors have fled Venezuela leaving workers out to dry. Venezuela's working class has stood up to the destiny of unemployment and helped to build a road to socialism: taking over ransacked companies, calling for the nationalization and implementing worker self-management. Since 2005, the Venezuelan government passed a number of legal decrees expropriating abandoned factories for workers to start up production. Today in Venezuela some 20 companies have been nationalized and function under worker co-management or control."

That's why I didn't criticise that part. It's an extreme example. But it perfectly illustrates an important point: It's possible (though very hard) to come back from the brink of disaster. By implementing Socialist policies and values.

[Night Tonic]

Now that IS extreme. When have you ever known a situation when we don't see-saw between the two main parties? I strongly beiieve that people matter more than money but every time we've had any kind of labour government (present accepted cos they're more Tory), they just fizzle out and the other lot come in. Anyway, at the moment whether you choose Tory or Labour, it won't help postal services will it. Don't be deluded by Hutton either. It just means that they'll mess with the regulations again but they won't reverse it.