Managers suspended at Edinburgh Mail Centre for hiding mail

[F0zziebear]

A couple of facts to throw in amongst the emotional and inaccruate information being posted.

1. Crozier and Leighton arrived after Consignia and the investment in foreign madcap companies. they actually changed the name back and de-vested in foreign companies and online shopping and other peripheral nonsense that was sucking millions out of the company
2. There is more than one way to measure volumes of mail.
a. Firstly there is the weighing of mail, which gives an estimate of volumes
b. Secondly, there is the mails characteristic survey (MCS) that is run by an independent company that tells RM about volumes and the make-up of mail in the country
c. Thirdly there is the revenues by stream that RM gets, which is quite easily converted into volumes, with a fall-to-earth profile that enables budgeting to be done.
Please note that the weighed mail and the financials have always had a gap between them, histroically over £100M!

As posties (whom I assume most of you are) it is highly likely you won't feel volumes are falling. Why? Quite simply your rounds have become bigger as rounds have decreased, this means that you odn't feel the decline.

Management are under huge pressure to clear everyday with less hours (staff) to do the job. Why is this? Simply put the upstream business has been descimated by DSA. However, RM has to maintain a minimum upstream operation, which is unprofitable.

Operations does not and never will make a profit. Why? because operations is not revenue generating. Marketing and Sales are responsible for generating revenue. Operations are specifically their to deliver the promise as outline by the products and services thought up by Marketing. Do Marketing and Operations live on the same planet, well I'll let you answer that question.

Do I think you are getting a rough deal. In cases yes, because those who have always worked hard and now being asked to work even harder for less. Are their lazy good for nothing sin operations. YES! Are there also lazy management who are bullies. YES! Are their senior management who are in it for themselves. YES! It's called humans' and human nature that exists in all levels in society. Get over it!

As for manager's hiding mail, there is no excuse. You either complain that you do not have the resources to do the job and go to the top, and if/when sacked take it to tribunal, or leave the company on redundancy and find another job. There is very little as difficult as RM operations elsewhere so if you can do it in RM then you shouldn't have a problem getting a job elsewhere.

[Night Tonic]

At last. The first post on mail volume that sorts the reality from the poop. I fear it'll be a wasted effort on some though.

[BELIAL]

Waste of space really.
Points 1 and 2 are sound but the conclusions and opinion are incorrect .
When was the last time you did a delivery Fozz,if ever? So opinion based on no experience, quite simply.
Management are cracking under the pressure, obviously ,but that is a result of cost cutting that bosses would have implemented irrespective of DSA.
The idea that you can partition the business in terms of revenue between Ops. and Marketing is bizarre to put it mildly. Not much point in selling something that does not exist .
"Get over it"
No excuse I agree but there are reasons and I guess it does show that the culture of fear and intimidation runs from the bottom to the very top. Now is that any way to run a modern forward looking enterprise?

[dvbuk55]

It isn't just mail though, take a look round and see all the things that should be done that aren't. We are trialling a new scheme at the moment and the issue is whether the new deliver is too big and the answer was if it wasn't done that way there would not be enough saving in man hours - 2 less on IPS 4 brought in for 1 hour each on OT to cover - oh yes the loonies are definitely in charge of the asylum right enough.

[norbert]

A couple of facts to throw in amongst the emotional and inaccurate information being posted.

1. Crozier and Leighton arrived after Consignia and the investment in foreign madcap companies. they actually changed the name back and de-vested in foreign companies and online shopping and other peripheral nonsense that was sucking millions out of the company
2. There is more than one way to measure volumes of mail.
a. Firstly there is the weighing of mail, which gives an estimate of volumes
b. Secondly, there is the mails characteristic survey (MCS) that is run by an independent company that tells RM about volumes and the make-up of mail in the country
c. Thirdly there is the revenues by stream that RM gets, which is quite easily converted into volumes, with a fall-to-earth profile that enables budgeting to be done.
Please note that the weighed mail and the financials have always had a gap between them, historically over £100M!

As posties (whom I assume most of you are) it is highly likely you won't feel volumes are falling. Why? Quite simply your rounds have become bigger as rounds have decreased, this means that you don't feel the decline.

Management are under huge pressure to clear everyday with less hours (staff) to do the job. Why is this? Simply put the upstream business has been decimated by DSA. However, RM has to maintain a minimum upstream operation, which is unprofitable.

Operations does not and never will make a profit. Why? because operations is not revenue generating. Marketing and Sales are responsible for generating revenue. Operations are specifically their to deliver the promise as outline by the products and services thought up by Marketing. Do Marketing and Operations live on the same planet, well I'll let you answer that question.

Do I think you are getting a rough deal. In cases yes, because those who have always worked hard and now being asked to work even harder for less. Are their lazy good for nothing sin operations. YES! Are there also lazy management who are bullies. YES! Are their senior management who are in it for themselves. YES! It's called humans' and human nature that exists in all levels in society. Get over it!

As for manager's hiding mail, there is no excuse. You either complain that you do not have the resources to do the job and go to the top, and if/when sacked take it to tribunal, or leave the company on redundancy and find another job. There is very little as difficult as RM operations elsewhere so if you can do it in RM then you shouldn't have a problem getting a job elsewhere.

I agree with Belai , OK there's previous loyalty ; however this in fact emotional and inaccurate . The background , the bigger picture .

1 . Patronizing Pat Hewitt wanted RM part sold or completely sold to TNT , there's been vaguely similar instances with the railways when Connex Central were too bad even for New Labour - that section of the south- east was effectively re-nationalized and the subsidy went down to a third , that got stopped by Blair as it was too " Old Labour " - same goes for Northern Trains but the Dutch state system own part of it , Railtrack went bust as it was bound to- sorry about the shareholders but at the end of the day the Stock Exchange is a glorified bookies - get over it , grow up

Northern Rock was effectively nationalized , New Labour tried their damnedest but the likes of Beardy Branson wouldn't touch it with a barge pole , NR went that way because they were too greedy and tried to be a bank .

Network Rail is basically a state owned private company - that's to cook the books with borrowing levels against national debt - that's why New Labour use PFI to cook the books with the NHS etc .

2 .Blair has always wanted RM privatized however he couldn't risk a back bench rebellion , New Labour's problem has always been it's mixed conflicting agendas . They were clever by appointing the Trojan Horse of Postcon as a regulator , Brown as Chancellor wanted the value of the part / wholly owned state companies increased - now this is where all this [/b]apparent fiddling - plumping up the figures by Senior Management all originates from - problem is that Gordon the moron's sums usually don't quite add up


3 . The Civil service types were an absolute disaster on Royal Mail's board - the Consignia name and symbol (which RM paid PR people a lot to design idea) was to take over Europe ( Incidentally RM group is now not allowed to do that ) - apparently RM was not the right name as it would be confused with European countries that have royal families or not mean anything in countries like Germany or France that don't have them .

The mistake made was buying ailing parcel companies for say a million then selling them back for a tenner - Post Office Limited was losing money hand over fist , RM was bloated with middle management too - 17 layers of management - a hangover from the jobs for the boys in the 90's - many of the £1 million losses were also due to paying these people up - therefore all that miracle recovery stuff has to be taken with a warehouse of salt - most of it is due to legal creative accounting with operating profits being the proviso .
However the ineffective Civil Service types were sacked with up to £500,000 golden handshakes

DTI minister Byers wanted RM split up into core functions in readiness for sale - he saw the CWU as an obstacle enter :lfo with his Walmart anti union policy - there's always been this trend with New Labour going for "personalties " that may have been successful elsewhere but a disaster out of their fields - Crapita , Passports , NHS IT to name but a few New Labour .cock ups .

Elmer Toime used to be :lfo 's sidekick but was paid £500,000 to leave due to personalty clashes ( didn't know some of these people had personalties but you learn something new everyday ) - Crozier was only brought in after RM got shafted in the media for it's dodgy mail centres .

Letters has always made a profit so I agree to disagree with the bit on Operations - it's true that DSA has hit revenue butthat's more to do with the slanted playing field , RM effectively subsidizing these foreign owned companies thanks to Postcon . The bit about running RM on a shoestring has a lot to do with Postcon as in their failed Tory free-marketeer parallel universe forcing RM to magically more efficient , there's no forensic anyalsis with Postcon .

However that mail still has to be delivered by RM so I don't buy the Arthur Daley School of Accountancy bit , also & :cfo don't exactly break their necks to fight them as for that :no
no - grow up , get real stuff nobody has ever expected anything less from RM's senior management , spivs , charlatans etc are some of the kinder comments .

The bit about human nature is , RM has the same problems that you get elsewhere - that is true but NOT to the literal extremes that RM go to

You have to look at the Sawyer report which was scathingly critical about RM , calling MC's hellholes , a style of management from the demob days of the 40's , running places like 60's factories before :lfo
Unite are scathing about RM's Senior Management - " An arrogant bullying company that thinks it alone knows best - Parliamentary Select Committees - no vision , no imagination - an obsession with union bashing for two years then privatization thereafter , plumping up figures etc ( CWU ~) - Senior Managers leaving as even they thought plans were unworkable

Sorry Fozzie , minimization is a sorry excuse for dated 80's / 90's macho management - :lfo 's style is a recipe for B&H - :lfo has never had an original idea in his head - the 70's command and control style ( a corporate version of RM management control ) is borrowed from Archie Norman - the fear uncertainty & doubt ( BS ) is a IBM 60's idea used mostly in the 80's , the regimentation is borrowed from Walmart - this guy is supposed to be a management guru

Most businesses have dropped the top down style .

Also for people having to work hard - that's by RM's own admission "Command & Ignore " - " We will have retrain our managers or pay them up as they don't have the skills to take our teams forward " - :cfo -" Two thirds of our managers are average below average ".

bit more than human nature - that's just a regurgitated version of " You're being negative " - must the most negative style of management going

[Tman]

You found time to think all that up, yet you haven't thought of the alleged "connection" between the Edinburgh managers hiding mail and nationwide mail volume reduction?

[DGP1]

If it's happening in one office then it's probably happening in other offices because the pressures are all the same.

[BELIAL]

You found time to think all that up, yet you haven't thought of the alleged "connection" between the Edinburgh managers hiding mail and nationwide mail volume reduction?

Here you go tman ,Never trust official RM figures cos things are not always as they seem, how much clearer do you need it? Watch out for that artic.

[Night Tonic]

RM must be unique then. Only operator in the entire world where volume has gone up.

[BELIAL]

You said it ,one of a kind ,volumes dropped so much they are stashing it everywhere?

[k979aaa]

RM must be unique then. Only operator in the entire world where volume has gone up.

Yes we have a market which favour's competition at our expense like non other in the world!. I REST MY CASE!.

[baldrick]

RM must be unique then. Only operator in the entire world where volume has gone up.

Didn't Ireland and Italy report increased mail volumes?

[baldrick]

You found time to think all that up, yet you haven't thought of the alleged "connection" between the Edinburgh managers hiding mail and nationwide mail volume reduction?

The point is that you seem to think RM's claims of falling mail volumes are gospel, and that MC managers
never fiddle the figures. This proves that they are not infallible, and if it is has come to light in one place,
it is quite likely it is happening elsewhere. That might need some investigation to prove. Whether the
auditors, RM or Postcon are willing to open this can of worms remains to be seen.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

RM must be unique then. Only operator in the entire world where volume has gone up.

Didn't Ireland and Italy report increased mail volumes?

Ireland An Post Reported

the core volume of mail still showed strong
underlying growth of 2.3%.

and

Continued good growth in mail volumes has been
a significant factor, while price increases have also
contributed to this. In this regard, mail increased
by 5.3% in volume terms and by 8.7% in value

These are the latest figures available for 2007 -2008 financial year http://www.anpost.ie/NR/rdonlyres/5B52A ... entary.pdf

The most recent for the Italians shows a decline of around 7% apparently because not much election material has been produced.

[Night Tonic]

I think you're clinging to a perception that isn't backed by hard facts. Still, if you want to believe that mail volume is up and Royal Mail is making as much money as ever, thats up to you.