Stick your cwu, i'm off to join the Boiler Makers union!

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 12 Sep 2008, 08:15

Captain Swing wrote:Dear all, I’m not, in any way advocating violence, merely venting my anger at a union hierarchy that is completely inept, over paid, with too many luxuries and obviously out of touch with its members and indeed some of its representatives. I’m totally frustrated by people in office, asking us to strike when they are on extortionate salaries and can’t tackle a basic human right for us, which is to be free from harassment at work from royal mail management.

I couldn't agree more, about the hierarchy being out of touch with us, but that's something that we need to work on from within. That's why I thought you were serious about trying to do something about it. Sorry.

There's far too much emphasis on money, and not enough on conditions. Although, I wouldn't go as far as to describe our wages as extortionate. They WERE excellent wages, for what we do. Although, now that inflation has gone out of control. We are in the eniable position, of still being able to live comfortably on what we earn.

They are well aware that royal mail’s Taliban managers are targeting and harassing, they’re well aware that we stand no chance within the tribunal system, yet they stand by and continue to advocate support for a political party that is clearly leaving us behind in support of tyranny.

We are, as reps, hung out to dry unless we play the royal mail game of total acceptance and compliance… How many appeals are now being won as apposed to a few years ago? Very few! We are in the grips of a tyrant employer who will stop at nothing to get their own way and what have we achieved… almost nothing, for if you can’t stop management bullying and harassing what is there… better pay? No, sooner or later when they have everything else, they’ll come after more of our jobs (personal selection of those they don’t like) and our pay.

This is exactly why we need to stick together, and try to make changes within the Union. If we don't stick together, we will be easier to defeat.

How many offices complain of unacceptable behaviour by managers and in comparison, how many investigations has our union undertaken…? I’ll bet very few!

Ladies, gentlemen, the Taliban are breathing down our necks waiting for the opportunity to eradicate trade unions from the workforce, (supported by the government); in some places, the reps are nothing more than a management tool anyway. This trend needs to be bucked, we need positive leadership and we need royal mail challenged for past and future Atrocities!

I'm ready for a revolution anyone else? That was a joke!!!!

Again, sorry for taking things too seriously.

Dynamo 2 · Post by **Dynamo 2** » 12 Sep 2008, 14:22

disgruntledpostie1 wrote:I think Swing was on the sauce last night and just very angry and surely it's better for him to come on here and vent his anger than to take his anger out on others or himself?

Ghandi may not have advocated violence but he didn't stop his followers from using it to gain independence for England.

Actually, DGP, although in theory, this is a better place to vent your anger and let off steam than in the work place, I wouldn't advocate it. Look what happened to one of the Bristol 3 when she did exactly that! ( but has since got her job back).

silverback · Post by **silverback** » 12 Sep 2008, 15:49

In my opinion a UNION is only as strong as its members. Our members in some offices dont unite and stick together. This is when RM have the upper hand. Just my opinion though.

spilie · Post by **spilie** » 12 Sep 2008, 18:03

this union passed the buck when they agreed to LOCAL AGREEMENTS. Our strength was in our Unity now with fractions making thier own deals we are lost, so now its a case of the Management using these Local Agreements and saying to other offices "well so and so are doing it" leaving us wide open to more and more cuts, so maybe its time the Union changed thier name to Semi-Union that way they can take credit for any good things and then blame local offices for all thats wrong

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 12 Sep 2008, 21:31

And there will always be throwback neanderthal cretins, but if they don't have guns or artillery ,they will find it very difficult to shoot their out of favor neighbors .

spilie · Post by **spilie** » 12 Sep 2008, 21:39

Linkinpark i will always continue the struggle, i for one will not forget how easy we have it compared to our parents and grandparents without whose struggle we would be even worse of, but you are quite right we have our pride which they can never take away. On the subject of violence a great man once said:

"The feeling of revolt will grow stronger every day among the peoples subjected to various degrees of exploitation, and they will take up arms to gain by force the rights which reason alone has not won them." Che Guevara

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 13 Sep 2008, 05:32

linkinpark wrote:
spilie wrote:Linkinpark i will always continue the struggle, i for one will not forget how easy we have it compared to our parents and grandparents without whose struggle we would be even worse of, but you are quite right we have our pride which they can never take away. On the subject of violence a great man once said:

"The feeling of revolt will grow stronger every day among the peoples subjected to various degrees of exploitation, and they will take up arms to gain by force the rights which reason alone has not won them." Che Guevara
The guy you quote was a cool guy in his time and had some good messages but as my kids would say is he relevant today or rather the the mid 1900s Not having a dig at the guy but until we all wake up then we will all (as we are now!) be led to the slaughter and the wolves are waiting for the sheep and he aint gonna help us! The only ones that can do that are us! Take up arms? Going in with AK-47s? Have to say i think there is a better way and its started already its called education and empathy. To me the biggest weapon ever created, it takes time and care but mountains can be moved !

Spilie you're right about the freedoms won by our Grandparents, in WWII. But in my opinion, that's the exception that proves the rule. And more importantly, they were trying to stop a dangerous Psycho, from taking over the World. In my opinion, that amounts to self defence. Don't forget, the Nazis would have taken over the ENTIRE World, if they could.

Linkinpark, all of History is relevant today (in my opinion). But I couldn't agree more, that education and empathy, are far more powerful than violence. Remember: The pen is mightier than the sword! Or to put it in a modern context: The Internet is mightier than the sword!

andy2007 · Post by **andy2007** » 13 Sep 2008, 05:52

dog bait wrote:
andy2007 wrote:Captain Swing, which Union are you in?

As for "falling on my sword". Are you seriously suggesting that we should resort to violence, as they did in 1830?
Or are you referring to people risking disciplinaries and/or Jail, to further the cause?

If it's the former, then forget it. Violence rarely solves anything. If it's the latter, then what do you suggest?

Mahatma Gandhi, managed to achieve great thingsd, without resorting to violence. I much prefer his methods, to those of the real Captain Swing.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not criticising you, or your views. I'm just pointing out that there are other methods, and that I for one, prefer not to resort to violence to solve my problems. After all: Gandhi managed to seure the freedom of his Country, without advocating violence.
well i dont want to aRGUE BUT..WRONG WRONG WRONG

violance is the supreame sorce of authority,does and will eventually achieve all aims.
thats why we have armies and navies and airforces when all else fails .the biggest bully wins

you could ask gandhi,but he was murdered and all his ideals with him.ever since india,pakistan have been at eachothers throat.every day they they still shell each others countries.

Gandhi's ideals didn't die with him. They were around before his time, and still exist today. It has been advocated for centuries, but it was Ghandi, who was the best example of someone putting it into prcatice, in modern times (in my opinion).

It was most famously put, as: The pen is mightier than the sword, by Edward Bulwer-Lytton for his play Richelieu; Or the Conspiracy, 1839. But as stated in The Phrase Finder, he wasn't the first. Or even the most famous person, to advocate the use of Brains over brawn: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the- ... sword.html
Bulwer-Lytton may have coined the phrase but he was preceded by several others who expressed essentially the same idea:

George Whetstone, in t, 1582, wrote "The dashe of a Pen, is more greevous than the counterbuse of a Launce."

In Hamlet, 1600, Shakespeare gave Rosencrantz the line "... many wearing rapiers are afraid of
goose-quills and dare scarce come thither."

Robert Burton's The Anatomy of Melancholy, 1621 includes "From this it is clear how much more cruel the pen may be than the sword."

Thomas Jefferson sent a letter to Thomas Paine in 1796, in which he wrote: "Go on doing with your pen what in other times was done with the sword."

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, just as much as I am. But I just fail to see, why there must be so much death and destruction, when we can sort out our problems, without the use of violence.

And just to clarify: Gandhi was murdered by someone who feared his attempts to stop the violence, and unify India. He's not the first great leader, to suffer that fate. And sadly, as long as people advocate violence, he won't be the last.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 13 Sep 2008, 13:18

dog bait wrote: well i dont want to aRGUE BUT..WRONG WRONG WRONG

violance is the supreame sorce of authority,does and will eventually achieve all aims.
thats why we have armies and navies and airforces when all else fails .the biggest bully wins

you could ask gandhi,but he was murdered and all his ideals with him.ever since india,pakistan have been at eachothers throat.every day they they still shell each others countries.

The biggest bully does not always win.

American War of Independence - The British had the biggest army, the most up to date weapons and won almost all the battles - Yet they still lost the war.

Battle of Agincourt - The English had the smallest army, 5900 men at arms and archers and the French 25,000 to 30,000 yet their bad tactics lost them a battle they should have easily won.

Boadicea had the largest army when she lost - some say she had 230,000 (although probably an exaggeration) at the last battle against 10,000 Romans but lost - this time due to very good tactics by the Legions.

Rourke's Drift. 150 men against 4,000 to 6,000 Zulus who had all but just wiped a British Column at the Battle of Isandlwana.

Also check out the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia - that peaceful protest in 1989 caused a communist government to collapse and the reinstatement democracy.

So while I would agree the biggest and best Army usually wins, and peaceful protest is not always the best way to go, sometimes the odds are overturned, and the underdogs wins.

Post by **baldrick** » 13 Sep 2008, 20:55

And a relatively small peasant army (Vietcong) defeated the mighty US army in Vietnam.
And the Taliban defeated the Soviet army in Afghanistan.

Captain Swing · Post by **Captain Swing** » 17 Sep 2008, 19:12

Dear all, I have watched your comments intently over the past week and can see merit in many if not all. However, when you have:

• A Branch Administrator the seems to thrive on exclusion for their own gains,
• A Business, such as Royal Mail that is intent on wiping out all but the most agreeable trade unionist,
• A government that supports bigot and harassing managers, not to mention a tribunal system and employment laws that's are only for the wealthy and are designed to support management.

Where to, no one has a clear solution!

marky · Post by **marky** » 29 Sep 2008, 21:20

.

but watch this space ...

Captain Swing · Post by **Captain Swing** » 01 Oct 2008, 17:52

It seems that this thread has gone the distance. No matter how much we vent or anger, protest at wrong and unjust within our union and workplace it all falls on deaf ears. To be perfectly frank, no one gives a s**t!

Clearly, we can all quote from the past and cite situations where the few have overcome the many. Unfortunately, we're still where we are and nothing is changing... In fact things are getting worse. What we really need is a leader of men, a Che Guevara of our time, someone, when they open their mouth, they don't fill the air with lies or contempt. Someone to show us the way and take out the festering, self appointed bigoted, Taliban tyrants and banishes them for good. However, back in the real world, we put up with the lies, make do with contempt, survive the hardship... This is our world, our children and their children will have nothing to look forward to simply because we allowed things to deteriorate. Before you know it we'll be working 100 hour weeks, our working wage will not cover our living expenses, their will be no retirement, as we simply can't afford it. If you thought life was bad over a century ago, guess what it'll be like in 10 or 20 years from now!

I could go on but I think you get the gist.

Where's our leader, do we really need someone to guide us, I don't believe we'll find any of this with in the CWU as it is at present. Out the capitalists, the bigots, the leaders and the Executive Council because they're taking us down a road to oblivion.

Last year, a Rep in Belfast was given 30 pieces of silver for what was considered betrayal of his friends, there's a lot more that deserved them, but I don't think any of us can afford to give all of them 30 pieces.

Good night, god bless, hope I wake to find righteous people by my side!

Post by **POSTMAN** » 01 Oct 2008, 21:49

It seems that this thread has gone the distance.

Agreed and i've only just noticed the thread and some of it's contents which have been deleted.
We've been here before guys.