Winter of dis-content?

[Darren Bent]

Let hope hard work in next few months will mean easier Christmas workload

[Si67]

Strange as it may sound. I find December not to be a bad month for delivery!! No D2Ds mailsort held back till January!! And even missorts overlooked! And managers try to keep on the right side of you to make sure we complete!! By f**k do we pay for it Januarey and February By far the worst months of the year... Especially when you think the hard chore of Xmas is over.. I Hate Jan & Feb!! Still.... Chin up lads!!

[iHateD2Ds]

Phase 3 is due to come in where mangement must utilise working hours but how will this work?
The maximun delivery span should be no more than 4 hours and if the jobs done properly an average walk will take this amount of time. So the utililisation must be indoor work in my eyes.
Don't let management bully you into taking extra on your walk!.
Rules to remember

Don't use your car on delivery.
Don't carry overweight bags
Don't take short cuts and run around

Stick to thier rules and you will find the job becomes easier.

[k979aaa]

Phase 3 is due to come in where mangement must utilise working hours but how will this work?
The maximun delivery span should be no more than 4 hours and if the jobs done properly an average walk will take this amount of time. So the utililisation must be indoor work in my eyes.
Don't let management bully you into taking extra on your walk!.
Rules to remember

Don't use your car on delivery.
Don't carry overweight bags
Don't take short cuts and run around

Stick to thier rules and you will find the job becomes easier.

I think you will find the maximum delivery span is 3.5 hour's as a national agreement!.

[BELIAL]

Phase 3 is due to come in where mangement must utilise working hours but how will this work?
The maximun delivery span should be no more than 4 hours and if the jobs done properly an average walk will take this amount of time. So the utililisation must be indoor work in my eyes.
Don't let management bully you into taking extra on your walk!.
Rules to remember

Don't use your car on delivery.
Don't carry overweight bags
Don't take short cuts and run around

Stick to thier rules and you will find the job becomes easier.

I think you will find the maximum delivery span is 3.5 hour's as a national agreement!.

Spot on ,not 4 hours . 3.5 hrs health and safety, anyone who says otherwise is a slavedriving backstabbing management patsy. Eyes open everyone

[Martin Walsh]

Whilst it is correct that the current delivery spec is 3.5 hours , it is a fact that we need an open debate within the CWU about whether this is sustainable in the future.

It is not helpful that you consider anyone who debates this issue as in managements pocket. The fact is that nothing could be futher from the truth !

Lets examine the evidence , currently in some general managers areas the levels of part timers have reached over 50 % and these figures are growing. Royal Mail`s new policy is not to recuit in deliveries anyone on 40 hours on a full term contract. Their rationale for this is that indoor work is reducing through increased automation in mail centres and with the introduction of new flat machines, the ILSMs and walk sequencing this will only decrease further the amount of indoor workload.

Walk sequencing where its been trialled does reduce the indoor workload significantly for the office where the machine is sited and has a lesser effect for the cluster offices as time constants mean it cannot process waves 4 or 5. (which is why Royal Mail wants later starts and a new later delivery letter spec ! )

Based on a typical day of 8 hours it does not take a genius to realise if you lose a sizable chunk of your indoor workload and remain on a 3.5 spec then full time jobs will be unsustainable. This is not even taken the fact that many offices now enjoy a 4 day week or a 9 day fortnight so work not a stadard 8 hour day but a 10 hour day.

So an honest debate does need to take place over on the long term future delviery model which protects full time jobs. Before anyone screams about health and safety two reports have already concluded by saying that if you performed a 4 hour delivery with taking weight off the shoulder with the current 3.5 hour spec with weight on the shoulder then the 4 hour spec would be safer.

There are other options once across the ground two waves and others. What is important is we have an open and honest debate. The fact is that nationally we now have 37747 part timers record levels and will continue to grow with full time jobs reducing and being attacked and this is whilst we on the 3.5 hour spec so lets not kid ourselves that simply demanded 3.5 hours will protect us in the future.

[POSTMAN]

Whilst it is correct that the current delivery spec is 3.5 hours , it is a fact that we need an open debate within the CWU about whether this is sustainable in the future.

Bits in here.
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... &sk=t&sd=a

[bandit650]

Have you ever walked into your DO with the rest of your mates and its like walking into a sea of york's with mail just stashed everywhere,wall to wall mailsort.
That's how it is in ours you can't move,the only thing that i can say is that the bully's that are running the office have made it clear there is no hours spare,health and safety they don't know the meaning.
A temp member of staff came back of her delivery at 17.30 in the evening crying she has had enough,what an introduction to your working life,nothing for our so called managers to be proud of,they wern't even there when she got back one of the lads was and took her home as she had come in with her mum who also works in the city.
The office is in a complete mess,the staff tired of being treated like a bit of muck on someones shoes,its very sad to see it but the staff still keep on going and we do our best to give some sort of service to our customers.
We have had managers telling us everyday that if we don't jump when they shout then we face suspension,one manager is ex army and tells us all the time he will suspend us if we don't go to the IPS bench fast,never mind it will soon be christmas.

I assume you've already tried getting your H&S Rep, and the Area H&S Rep involved. So you can now contact HSE on 08453450055, and put in a formal complaint about them. You don't have to give your name, if you don't want to. Just make sure you went through the local and area Reps first. That way, you're covered by the "Whistle Blower's Charter", should your Manager find out it was you.

HSE won't necessarily come and do an inspection. It depends on how serious they think it is. But should anyone get hurt, because of the H&S failures. It'll all be on record, and they'll be able to get RM in a great deal of trouble. The Law takes a dim view of careless Employers these days.

Hi yep we have been to the local H&S and the area H&S we have also spoken to the H&S manager,he was so dismissive of our plight that i went and spoke to the local H&S at the council and to be honest i really was not worried about them telling who spoke to them,i really am only concerned for the safety of staff working in the office,what did get a reaction which took us all by surprise was a letter that i wrote to the DOM laying out my concerns for the safety of all who work in the office and that i felt it was not being taken as important.What i did was make it clear that the letter now stands as a legal document and that i was the holder of the hard copy and the photo's.

[BELIAL]

Whilst it is correct that the current delivery spec is 3.5 hours , it is a fact that we need an open debate within the CWU about whether this is sustainable in the future.

It is not helpful that you consider anyone who debates this issue as in managements pocket. The fact is that nothing could be futher from the truth !

Lets examine the evidence , currently in some general managers areas the levels of part timers have reached over 50 % and these figures are growing. Royal Mail`s new policy is not to recuit in deliveries anyone on 40 hours on a full term contract. Their rationale for this is that indoor work is reducing through increased automation in mail centres and with the introduction of new flat machines, the ILSMs and walk sequencing this will only decrease further the amount of indoor workload.

Walk sequencing where its been trialled does reduce the indoor workload significantly for the office where the machine is sited and has a lesser effect for the cluster offices as time constants mean it cannot process waves 4 or 5. (which is why Royal Mail wants later starts and a new later delivery letter spec ! )

Based on a typical day of 8 hours it does not take a genius to realise if you lose a sizable chunk of your indoor workload and remain on a 3.5 spec then full time jobs will be unsustainable. This is not even taken the fact that many offices now enjoy a 4 day week or a 9 day fortnight so work not a stadard 8 hour day but a 10 hour day.

So an honest debate does need to take place over on the long term future delviery model which protects full time jobs. Before anyone screams about health and safety two reports have already concluded by saying that if you performed a 4 hour delivery with taking weight off the shoulder with the current 3.5 hour spec with weight on the shoulder then the 4 hour spec would be safer.

There are other options once across the ground two waves and others. What is important is we have an open and honest debate. The fact is that nationally we now have 37747 part timers record levels and will continue to grow with full time jobs reducing and being attacked and this is whilst we on the 3.5 hour spec so lets not kid ourselves that simply demanded 3.5 hours will protect us in the future.

Nicely put,think i'll join the open and honest debate.
First I think your position is based on the incorrect assumption that mechanization will save vast amounts of time in DO's. We know already that trial results of WSM's show best case scenario savings of 20mins prep per walk, we also know that flat sorting machines are extremely limited in what they can process ( and on a personal note I have direct experience of them being unable to get anywhere near a target of 15% of volume).
Lets for debates sake accept your assumption, given that, my second point would be, Talk to me about increased walk lengths when we have secured a reduction in our working hours per week,no better job protector or quality of life improver. Seems our union have dropped this demand.
Third, I cannot understand how increasing walk lengths and the obvious associated lost duties will protect jobs,sounds like another hatchet job to me.
Fourthly , already with 3.5 hr walk span limits we all know of walks that take 4.5 hrs, every office has got them. Can you imagine an agreed 4hr span ,some will end up as 5.5 + hrs.
Fifth,do you honestly believe that by agreeing to RM's 4hr walk demands that Mr Crozier will give up on his vision of a part time,largely non unionised workforce. Me I think he'll say "thanks a lot,and heres your one hour contract".
Maybe we should do a poll: Would you be prepared to take IA in support of a 35hr week and no job losses?

Or, Are you willing to accept 4Hr walks and resultant redundancies ?

[Martin Walsh]

Thanks for your response but i think I must disagree with you with regards to how well automation is working. The facts are it is working better than we would like but not as fast as Royal mail would like.

With regards to walk sequencing I think your not correct. Stratford one the trial offices for walk sequencing the solstics machine has worked and management believe they could take in excess of 30 mins per walk per day with the possiblity of more if they can use the indoor workload tool. What is correct is the cluster offices which Stratford services there is very little hourage which can be saved as waves 4 and 5 cannot be squenced. Which is a problem for Royal Mail and the reason they would like to have a latter delivery spec possibly as late a 4 0clock which would enable Royal mail to introduce later starts in the cluster offices possibly 8 oclock.

In addition as all mail centres are reporting that there has been an increase in mech and will increase further as the flat and packets machines are deployed and have bedded in.

It is correct that Roysl Mail have down dialled their orginal desire of 1000 walk squencing to 500 but they now intend to use the legacy kits and flats machine to increase mech to delivery offices.

With regard to wether the business will accept a longer spec, off course they wont they never have , remember it was the CWU who carried polices on the protection of the 0930 last letter back in the 90s when we had two deliveries and it was us who called for one delivery on our terms when 95% of the mail was being delivered on the first delivery. So as normal we have to force Royal mail to listen and two things can do that one is industrial action which is always a viable option and the second is refusing to agree any futher savings. Both of these will create the right climate to get the right deal.

With regard to walks going past 3.5 hours currently well if we allowing this to happen now why is this not being tackled now via the IR framework. The problem is if offices are by default moving past 3.5 hours without a national agreement then it will weaken the unions barginning position on the future delivery model.

With regards to part timers again the levels vary widely with London having the least just over 4% with some parts of the North East having over 40% so it is important we disucss how we can protect full time jobs in the future when and it is not an if the amount of indoor workload reduces futher. On top of all this we currently have seen as a result of the credit crunch a reduction of 6% on delivery traffic this year.

Yes I support the shorter working week but lets face facts we have seen just two 90 miniute cuts since 1988. The last one under the way forward meant we assorbed 68% to achieve the SWW so lets not believe that it will be the saviour in itself. It is I agree one of the tools which can assist us in protecting full time jobs as part of an overall package.

I dont confess to have the answers but I do believe that the cwu needs an open and inclusive debate within the on what the delivery model should look like as the status quo is not an option as it is not protecting full time jobs but allowing management to by default to introduce levels of part timers which will weaken the unions barginning power in the future debate.

[BELIAL]

You ain't winning me over with this stuff. Management in Stratford may well believe they can save 30 mins per walk using walk sequencing,but management believe lots of stuff that is pie in the sky,and nationally according to the latest trial results the best case time saving scenario is 20 mins(so I'd guess 700+ calls ,broken roads ,not straightforward).
As for wAves 4+ 5 you only need to look back to RM's application to Postcon to extend last delivery and their stated reason, to enable DSA suppliers to meet their hand over deadlines,not our problem.
Got to come clean ,I ain't got a clue what a legacy kit is but if it works as well as the flat sorting machines ,which appear to do nothing ,then I don't feel too threatened
Take your point of the CWU carrying policies on the protection of the 0930 last letter,how times change.

I agree ,every walk in excess of 3.5 hrs should be challenged,but every office is different ,some reps are more experienced,outspoken,better trained, some OPG's are more vulnerable and more easily intimidated,this is fact not an ideal vision. Truth be told ,this latest agreement with it's emphasis on local negotiation and agreement has clouded all these issues, and been seen as a green light by many wannabe management stars.

As for a 6% reduction on delivery traffic this year,all I can say is go try delivering it, or 47 letters to 18B or 50 letters ,it makes no odds.
Part timers be it 4% ,40% the bulk exist on sham overtime ,no extra pension, no extra holiday entitlements,in short cheap labour,undercutting and undermining the position of all.Yet I still don't see a rational argument that explains how lengthening walks and cutting duties ,protects jobs.
Good news that we got 90 mins knocked off our working week since 1988, thats 1min 30secs a year ,but still the longest working week in Europe with the least public holidays.Pardon me if I'm not bowled over with my employers munificence.
Give me back the final salary pension scheme payable at 60 ,up my wages to the national average, no more ,and give me a 35 hr week and then i'll chat about delivery models,cos your right the status quo is certainly not an option

[Big Daz]

Holiday entitlement in RM is generous compared to other companies who only give their workers the bare legal minium.

[pinstripe]

Can anyone tell me the point of saving up to 30 mins if we are still going to be delivering at 4.00pm.

[Big Daz]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... G_10034642

What we should be campainging for is that the legal holiday entitlement becomes over and above bank holidays which would benefit all workers full or part time whose employer is not as generous as Royal Mail.


The facts are some employers give a holiday entitlement that is absolutley measley compared to those of us who have got 6 weeks leave entitlement and bank holidays on top of that .

We should also push for a legal right to increased leave for long service for UK workers.