Trying for Constructive Dismissal??

Stormproof · Post by **Stormproof** » 02 Sep 2008, 19:30

After spending a few years doing the Callers duty in a busy town I've been moved as I was suffering from depression from the constant complaints from customers. I've gone back to deliveries, which I was looking forward to, the trouble is I've been sent out to a rural SPDO miles from where I live and an area I don't know/people I don't know. I've no transport to get there, so I have to go into my old office early to get a lift out to the SPDO, I've only been doing this delivery 2 days(getting tuition) but everytime I've seen a manager they've constantly told me I need to get some transport, I can't afford it. When I originally applied for my job it was for deliveries based in the Mail Centre not 10 miles out in the sticks with no public transport. Today I was also told that I am now an SPDO reserve and can go to any SPDO in the area, I don't want to be stuck out in the sticks. I can't work out if they are trying to get rid of me or they think they are doing me a favour sending me out somewhere so quiet so I don't get depressed again. What do you think?

johnnyp · Post by **johnnyp** » 02 Sep 2008, 20:00

I think sod that k66yla :shock:Thats the same duty they offered the Mrs and me when we applied for a transfer about 5 years ago and i bet its the same SPDOs as well.It was a massive shock when we saw the SPDO(a shed at the back of the post office)and the guy i spoke to did not think much of the union at all(alot of these worked during last years dispute).Find out if there are any duties at your M/C delivery office and insist that you go there as transport is impossible for you.Good Luck and say Hello to the boys and girls for me.

IMG_1030_3.JPG

The good old days

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 02 Sep 2008, 20:32

k66yla wrote:After spending a few years doing the Callers duty in a busy town I've been moved as I was suffering from depression from the constant complaints from customers. I've gone back to deliveries, which I was looking forward to, the trouble is I've been sent out to a rural SPDO miles from where I live and an area I don't know/people I don't know. I've no transport to get there, so I have to go into my old office early to get a lift out to the SPDO, I've only been doing this delivery 2 days(getting tuition) but everytime I've seen a manager they've constantly told me I need to get some transport, I can't afford it. When I originally applied for my job it was for deliveries based in the Mail Centre not 10 miles out in the sticks with no public transport. Today I was also told that I am now an SPDO reserve and can go to any SPDO in the area, I don't want to be stuck out in the sticks. I can't work out if they are trying to get rid of me or they think they are doing me a favour sending me out somewhere so quiet so I don't get depressed again. What do you think?

I believe RM's attitude is that you have to prove that RM CONSTRUCTED your dismissal , constructive dismissal is notoriously hard to prove at the best of times .

In another service we used to boil everything down to this - Is it "straight " - "bent" but made to look straight or just plain "bent " - the other one is "managing out of the business " and many businesses can be very devious about this .

A high ranking BT manager during the privatization told disabled staff they'd best take the money or they'd be managed out of the business and get nothing but a P45 - that's the problem proving the obvious as I suspect RM will spiel off all this BS about caring for our people and we sent one of our people into a nice little number out in the sticks .

They are hardly going to stick the white flag up and say - Oh ! Yes ! - it's a fair call - we're a bunch of b**tards ?

What I also suspect is that they've sent you out into the wilds as they regard you as a troublemaker and/or a loose cannon as I think you've had run-ins with RM's vicious system in the past , proving that is difficult though .

Apparently the rule of thumb is if your position has really been made impossible so you can't do your work properly and you have been made forcefully aware that the company is forcing you out - you don't have to wait until you feel your ribs are cracking under the pressure - you write a letter keeping copies setting out the behaviour / problems which are making it impossible , you have to put a phrase in the letter - " I consider in the circumstances that RM has purposefully constructively dismissed me .

NEVER EVER write " I therefore resign "! that'll confuse matters and RM will take advantage of that to wriggle out of it , twist things to save their sorry a***s .

The other one you might have to prove is repudiation of contract and RM will use all sorts of bullying be it subtle or not subtle , even if you can stand up to it , RM will hire high powered barristers and lawyers to keep things down and try to teach people a lesson .

I think the manager is being "nice " at the moment but I suspect there might be a time that they'd have to start disciplining you if you turn up late , they'd have to go on stages starting with tickings off down to action short of dismissal to dismissal .

Watch for a trumped up charge . I'd log everything that manager has said , even accidentally on purpose switch the video mode on a mobile or digital camera on as they work on the basis it's our word against yours and nobody will believe you .

The other problem is if you resigned you may have trouble with the Social if they consider that you didn't have a valid reason for leaving - they'll be onto RM , everything will be purely to impress more senior managers , they twist and use vague and obscure things out of context , and they won't like you telling tales out of class about RM .

The Social is apparently even more regimented than RM , there's a lot of pressure , a culture of fear , jobsworths , instead of :lfo & :cfo there's New Liebour busy -body ministers and Senior Servants , there will be no common sense , perspective and proportion , they'll do anything to trip you up and you may have to fight them in a DHSS tribunal .

I'd do the following - get the GP to support you - maybe a Doctor's letter , talk to Simpson & Miller , see the Branch Secretary and his Area reps and get a free interview with a good employment lawyer , but log absolutely everything as primary evidence .

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 02 Sep 2008, 20:52

k66yla wrote:After spending a few years doing the Callers duty in a busy town I've been moved as I was suffering from depression from the constant complaints from customers. I've gone back to deliveries, which I was looking forward to, the trouble is I've been sent out to a rural SPDO miles from where I live and an area I don't know/people I don't know. I've no transport to get there, so I have to go into my old office early to get a lift out to the SPDO, I've only been doing this delivery 2 days(getting tuition) but everytime I've seen a manager they've constantly told me I need to get some transport, I can't afford it. When I originally applied for my job it was for deliveries based in the Mail Centre not 10 miles out in the sticks with no public transport. Today I was also told that I am now an SPDO reserve and can go to any SPDO in the area, I don't want to be stuck out in the sticks. I can't work out if they are trying to get rid of me or they think they are doing me a favour sending me out somewhere so quiet so I don't get depressed again. What do you think?

Tell them i cannot stand customers full stop and must work indoors it's not as bad as delivery now is i wish i had stayed at the mail center all those years ago now!.

iHateD2Ds · Post by **iHateD2Ds** » 04 Sep 2008, 15:32

Hi k66yla
To put in a complaint Youve got to have definite proof that the managment are doing this to you.Thier get out will probably be this is the only delivery postion available. Ive worked in the rural SPDO (reserves) for over 12 years covering around 45 walks from week to week .It can be an arduous task learning each walk and thats without suffering from depression. Have a word with your union rep and line manager Im sure they would fine you a more suitable posistion.

Stormproof · Post by **Stormproof** » 05 Sep 2008, 10:12

I've got my Union Rep on the case now, from the first mention of me going out to the rural SPDO's he told the DOM this would be totally unsuitable for me, but obviously no one took any notice. Yesterday I had a sort of telephone consultation (signal kept breaking up, due to being out in the sticks) with a Workplace Councillor, I told him about my circumstances and the 'plan' the DOM had come up with, he could'nt understand why RM have sent me out to somewhere totally isolated from anything/anyone I know and is going to contact the DOM and recommend I be put back in an area/people I know.

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 05 Sep 2008, 11:28

k66yla wrote:I've got my Union Rep on the case now, from the first mention of me going out to the rural SPDO's he told the DOM this would be totally unsuitable for me, but obviously no one took any notice. Yesterday I had a sort of telephone consultation (signal kept breaking up, due to being out in the sticks) with a Workplace Councillor, I told him about my circumstances and the 'plan' the DOM had come up with, he could'nt understand why RM have sent me out to somewhere totally isolated from anything/anyone I know and is going to contact the DOM and recommend I be put back in an area/people I know.

seems pretty obvious what RM have done - problem is proving it

The same used to happen in another service - when they finished my job - I was told by a rep , a inspector had said " Well there's such & such if he's bothered " - translated it meant we'll sack him first to save money

After six weeks , it finally dawned on the imbeciles in charge that all I did was my job but they did have me in the office and quell surprise there was no vacancies locally and local staff had to be accommodated first - they gave me a reason but it was riddled with holes and contradictions of course !

I wasn't the only one , going to the union and fighting things meant you were branded as a s**tstirrer .

Careful RM don't play the same game - they'll deliberately word things in a vague and obscure manner to circumvent employment law .

Post by **Lounge Lizard** » 07 Sep 2008, 10:45

k66yla wrote:I've got my Union Rep on the case now, from the first mention of me going out to the rural SPDO's he told the DOM this would be totally unsuitable for me, but obviously no one took any notice. Yesterday I had a sort of telephone consultation (signal kept breaking up, due to being out in the sticks) with a Workplace Councillor, I told him about my circumstances and the 'plan' the DOM had come up with, he could'nt understand why RM have sent me out to somewhere totally isolated from anything/anyone I know and is going to contact the DOM and recommend I be put back in an area/people I know.

An SPDO might suit you, out in the sticks, none of the hustle and bustle of an urban walk, don't see a DOM for months at a time, go on, give it a try, it could be the best move you ever made, you might never look back.

Stormproof · Post by **Stormproof** » 07 Sep 2008, 11:07

I could probably hack it if I stayed in one place/one duty but the intention is to keep moving me around different SPDO's, I've no transport to get to and from these places. I'll probably get the sack sooner or later anyway for going off with depression, as most of you already know I'm on a stage 2 due to a blood transfusion/op last year and its only been 9 months since that stage 2 was issued.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 07 Sep 2008, 11:29

Is there anyway you could use a medical reason to not be so far away from where you know you can get help from someone you know!.

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 07 Sep 2008, 15:23

k66yla wrote:I could probably hack it if I stayed in one place/one duty but the intention is to keep moving me around different SPDO's, I've no transport to get to and from these places. I'll probably get the sack sooner or later anyway for going off with depression, as most of you already know I'm on a stage 2 due to a blood transfusion/op last year and its only been 9 months since that stage 2 was issued.

it does sound if they may be P***ing you about - problem is proving it as RM would have it down to a fine art - it is a worry being on Stage 2 - If you did trigger a 3 , I'd resign rather than giving RM the satisfaction - the Social would be OK about jumping before you were pushed - but it'd need some plotting and as someone said a bit of help

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 07 Sep 2008, 15:47

norbert wrote:
k66yla wrote:I could probably hack it if I stayed in one place/one duty but the intention is to keep moving me around different SPDO's, I've no transport to get to and from these places. I'll probably get the sack sooner or later anyway for going off with depression, as most of you already know I'm on a stage 2 due to a blood transfusion/op last year and its only been 9 months since that stage 2 was issued.
it does sound if they may be P***ing you about - problem is proving it as RM would have it down to a fine art - it is a worry being on Stage 2 - If you did trigger a 3 , I'd resign rather than giving RM the satisfaction - the Social would be OK about jumping before you were pushed - but it'd need some plotting and as someone said a bit of help

Bit drastic there norbert if their is any chance hold out you never know there always away round all problem's but you must find it yourself never give up all hope has not gone!. THE SOLUTION TO YOUR WORKING SITUATION IS ULTIMATELY ONLY SOLVABLE BY YOUR DETERMINATION TO DO WHAT IS JUST AND RIGHT FOR YOURSELF (FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS)!. good luck and all the best k979aaa!.

norbert · Post by **norbert** » 07 Sep 2008, 19:36

k979aaa wrote:
norbert wrote:
k66yla wrote:I could probably hack it if I stayed in one place/one duty but the intention is to keep moving me around different SPDO's, I've no transport to get to and from these places. I'll probably get the sack sooner or later anyway for going off with depression, as most of you already know I'm on a stage 2 due to a blood transfusion/op last year and its only been 9 months since that stage 2 was issued.
it does sound if they may be P***ing you about - problem is proving it as RM would have it down to a fine art - it is a worry being on Stage 2 - If you did trigger a 3 , I'd resign rather than giving RM the satisfaction - the Social would be OK about jumping before you were pushed - but it'd need some plotting and as someone said a bit of help
Bit drastic there norbert if their is any chance hold out you never know there always away round all problem's but you must find it yourself never give up all hope has not gone!. THE SOLUTION TO YOUR WORKING SITUATION IS ULTIMATELY ONLY SOLVABLE BY YOUR DETERMINATION TO DO WHAT IS JUST AND RIGHT FOR YOURSELF (FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS)!. good luck and all the best k979aaa!.

You might be able to hold on for three months - What I was driving at was worst case scenario and the way some people think instead of being scared by the thought of disciplinary "interviews " ( quite understandable and a not a nice experience - especially with RM turning everything into a three melodrama ? ) - well s*d it and s*d them .

iHateD2Ds · Post by **iHateD2Ds** » 07 Sep 2008, 19:47

k66yla wrote:I could probably hack it if I stayed in one place/one duty but the intention is to keep moving me around different SPDO's, I've no transport to get to and from these places. I'll probably get the sack sooner or later anyway for going off with depression, as most of you already know I'm on a stage 2 due to a blood transfusion/op last year and its only been 9 months since that stage 2 was issued.

K66yla , Try not to work up yourself too much with RM stage procedures. Youve had time time off through major health issues which should be considered should you ever trigger off another stage. I doubt it will ever come to dismisal but should it happen an industrial tribunal will most definatley go in your favour.

My advice is to make contact with RM occupational health ,Union Rep and Delivery Office management . ATOS will surely recomend a stable duty due to you suffering from depression.