Who believes mail volumes are falling?

[norbert]

Who is ignoring "hard facts" . What 88% of respondents are saying is that they are delivering more items daily. The number of items stuck through letterboxes is about as hard fact as you can get. Seems this does not tally with official statistics, but establishment figures are in general increasingly distrusted especially when they directly contradict daily experience.Maybe there is a flaw in the system, and, as, if stated a DO can receive 30% of it's daily traffic uncounted by a mailcenter does this have huge revenue implications?

a very fluffychat or Hellmail defence/ justification for / of the Business - Parcels and Packets , Door to Dustbin are up , the other interesting bit is the revenue on them is up , profits are down which either means RM is losing money on them , the postage prices are possibly too low and/or don't reflect the true cost of processing & delivery especially with less cross subsidy from clean Business Mail without foreign postal company PPI indices on - or there's something else ? in the equation ? .

The best example of "creative accounting " ( though legal no matter how morally reprehensible ) was something Fozziebear mentioned about RM's profits going down 86% but there was an issue over RM directors having their "well deserved " bonuses held back -

there was another massive daily loss years ago but that was due to paying off the managers off , when RM had a unheard of in business 17 layers of management and the managerial high headcount was due to a hangover from the jobs for the boys in the 90's .

The Union had been suspicious of this RM Creative Accounting School and this was confirmed in a Guardian article - some of the losses were in actuality a operating after tax profit - the other profits were not as high as RM would have people believe .

Some of the losses were immediately stopped as soon as Leighton got permission to put a penny on stamps from Postcon - as the Guardian said - typical Leighton - lots of spin & hype , promising a lot but in reality delivering very little . :

Sorry but most of the lads on here have been around too long and I'm inclined to go along with them

[k979aaa]

The whole idea of market libralisation is to benift the CUSTOMER but who is the CUSTOMER is the CUSTOMER the top 100 company's in the land or mrs smith down the road at 49 old st london or is it jones the butcher's at 99 old st london!. OR IS IT THE DOWNSTREAM ACCESS COMPANY'S THAT HAVE HELD OUR SERVICE TO RANSOM AND TORE IT'S HEART OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY!. FOR IT IS THEY WITH OUR CORRUPT GOVERNMENT'S HELP AND EUROPEAN PROFITEER'S WHO HAVE DESTROYED OUR ONCE GREAT SERVICE! MAY IT NOW REST IN PEACE

[Tman]

Who is ignoring "hard facts" . What 88% of respondents are saying is that they are delivering more items daily. The number of items stuck through letterboxes is about as hard fact as you can get.

Of course it's not.
That pouches MAY be heavier is not under dispute, but that (as others have said) has other factors to be considered.
But heavier pounches wouldn't disprove the underlying trend of less MC traffic over the last 12-18 months, as idle machines and AI usage shows to anyone who cares to look.
Hardly takes the genius of Hawking to get a picture of the decline in mail, but I suppose it's easier to play the "I'm so cynical, me" card, or stick one's head firmly in a bucket of sand than face the unpalatable truth.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

After reviewing most of this long and slowly meandering thread I think it has come down to someone to point out something.

The title of the thread was "Who believes Mail volumes are failing". It was not "Mail Volumes are Declining Discuss" or "Mail Volumes Fact or Fiction" - it simply asked if you personally thought in your own experience that Mail Volumes were failing or not. However, the thread has degenerated into a I am right and you are wrong flame war, and the arguments from both sides are getting tired and repetitive.

So IMO the question has truly been answered the majority believe that mail volumes aren't failing and a minority believe they are. The OP did not I believe ask for proof of either assertion just that they wanted to get a feeling of posters opinions regarding this subject, perhaps we can get back to the original point and stop this circular point scoring.

So who Believes mail volumes are falling then - do we have any new comments or arguments if not let this thread die a death and long may it rest in peace.

[k979aaa]

If mail volumes are falling why would DSA provider's invest so much money in a shrinking market it is royalmail's market share which is shrinking!. The postal market is big ( BUISNESS ) a lot of money to be made if you can get something done for very little expence which is why royalmail is feeling the pinch of competition!.

[Tman]

So IMO the question has truly been answered the majority believe that mail volumes are failing and a minority believe they are not.
Some believe the world is flat, and some believe we all came from Adam and Eve; wouldn't discussing the reality of RM's situation be more interesting and appropriate than discussing people's hard-to-shake and ill-conceived beliefs?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So IMO the question has truly been answered the majority believe that mail volumes are failing and a minority believe they are not.
Some believe the world is flat, and some believe we all came from Adam and Eve; wouldn't discussing the reality of RM's situation be more interesting and appropriate than discussing people's hard-to-shake and ill-conceived beliefs?

Sorry I got the Poll information wrong way round. However you point is well taken in regards as to discussing the reality of RMs situation, also another good discussion would be why do the majority of voters and contributors to this thread/poll not believe RM assertions and where has this lack of trust come from.

Surely one of the best ways to turn round RMs current position would be to get the workforce onside and in full support of modernisation. Perhaps RM wrong footed itself with the delivery staff when its initial pay offer actually meant a reduction in take home of between £10 and £30 per week, and ever since then it has appeared to ignore the concerns of all staff but primarily it appears delivery staff. Also I don't think it built up much trust when they said that, and I paraphrase, RM staff were overpaid and underworked when measured against other workers in the sector.

[POSTMAN]

Tman,nighty,others,for the umpteenth time please answer my query below!

I've said it before and i'll say it again.........
When a DSM stands in front of me and tells me the traffic figures of the day and it works out about 500 letters per frame and the frames we're having the conversation in front of (average 550 calls) are bulging with mail.....................
Then summin aint right!!! FFS!

[BELIAL]

So IMO the question has truly been answered the majority believe that mail volumes are failing and a minority believe they are not.
Some believe the world is flat, and some believe we all came from Adam and Eve; wouldn't discussing the reality of RM's situation be more interesting and appropriate than discussing people's hard-to-shake and ill-conceived beliefs?

Sorry I got the Poll information wrong way round. However you point is well taken in regards as to discussing the reality of RMs situation, also another good discussion would be why do the majority of voters and contributors to this thread/poll not believe RM assertions and where has this lack of trust come from.

Surely one of the best ways to turn round RMs current position would be to get the workforce onside and in full support of modernisation. Perhaps RM wrong footed itself with the delivery staff when its initial pay offer actually meant a reduction in take home of between £10 and £30 per week, and ever since then it has appeared to ignore the concerns of all staff but primarily it appears delivery staff. Also I don't think it built up much trust when they said that, and I paraphrase, RM staff were overpaid and underworked when measured against other workers in the sector.

No you got it right, somebody just made another of those common mistakes and misquoted you or appeared to so it came out all twisty,I'm sure it was a pure accident.

[k979aaa]

Royalmail only makes money on mail it processes from start to finnish i think they only count this mail and dont count the DSA mail becase we lose money on it. And royalmails share of the market has shrunk and their mail volume's are down why count mail we lose money on and it is to keep us all thinking about our future!. If you tell a lie long enough people will start to believe it so they say!.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So IMO the question has truly been answered the majority believe that mail volumes are failing and a minority believe they are not.
Some believe the world is flat, and some believe we all came from Adam and Eve; wouldn't discussing the reality of RM's situation be more interesting and appropriate than discussing people's hard-to-shake and ill-conceived beliefs?

Sorry I got the Poll information wrong way round. However you point is well taken in regards as to discussing the reality of RMs situation, also another good discussion would be why do the majority of voters and contributors to this thread/poll not believe RM assertions and where has this lack of trust come from.

Surely one of the best ways to turn round RMs current position would be to get the workforce onside and in full support of modernisation. Perhaps RM wrong footed itself with the delivery staff when its initial pay offer actually meant a reduction in take home of between £10 and £30 per week, and ever since then it has appeared to ignore the concerns of all staff but primarily it appears delivery staff. Also I don't think it built up much trust when they said that, and I paraphrase, RM staff were overpaid and underworked when measured against other workers in the sector.

No you got it right, somebody just made another of those common mistakes and misquoted you or appeared to so it came out all twisty,I'm sure it was a pure accident.

No I did get it wrong I had to go back and amend it - if you check my original post it shows why amended it in the comments box below it.

[BELIAL]

just as well my being on best behaviour

ps 89-10% now

[Tman]

just as well my being on best behaviour

ps 89-10% now

Never mind Belle; I'm sure you won't want to overplay the "bring the argument down to a personal denigration level" card more than necessary ....

[BELIAL]

Never mind Belle; I'm sure you won't want to overplay the "bring the argument down to a personal denigration level" card more than necessary ....

RULES

Please do not in any circumstances resort to name calling ..............

[Tman]

I see the art of repartee and debate isn't quite dead ....

Seems the RMC's new rules haven't been read and fully understood be some, though.