Hell offices now.

[ted_e_bear]

The union not only agreed to it, this is their plan.
This isn't what RM wanted. This is what the union have proposed.

Royal Mail wanted two people to deliver two duties that had not been out for 2/3 days EVERY SINGLE DAY! You wouldn't have had a fixed duty because you would have been moving to a different set of duties the following day.It would have been even more relentless and brutal. On top of this there would have been another frame they wanted you to take from as well!
Ask posties who it was inflicted on! It was trialled and Royal Mail wanted it to proceed.

The Union to be fair have mitigated it to 4 loops of mail and 4 loops of tracked and 1st per person to make the workload more even.

Personally I think the new system is exhausting but don't kid yourself that Royal Mail had better plans. They didn't!
[/quote]

Yes that's what I thought, we've just started and it's not great but it would have been much worse with that Evie, Ahmed or whatever their names were odm bollocks

[A2B]

Yes that's what I thought, we've just started and it's not great but it would have been much worse with that Evie, Ahmed or whatever their names were odm bollocks

But what happens when DM26 fails with full CWU involvement?

RM are going to have a field day

[Ivor Smallbone]

Yes that's what I thought, we've just started and it's not great but it would have been much worse with that Evie, Ahmed or whatever their names were odm bollocks

But what happens when DM26 fails with full CWU involvement?

RM are going to have a field day

Correct

[toonshola]

For the shared vans which make up a large percentage of the jobs now I genuinely think Dave and Martin have agreed something worse than the ODM with this DM26 nonsense. Yes the pair in the shared vans would be doing double mail all the time on the full delivery but at least you would only be covering the area of two deliveries. This DM26 shite means your still doing double mail on half a van share anyway then your faffing about with 2 thirds of other areas in which again some of it is double mail. You’re covering a huge area with all the small tracked and first class and you are also ramming the van with the extra large parcels from this area.
Looking at the bollocks longer attendance hours under DM26 i honestly believe it would have been easier on the longer shift patterns to just do the original ODM model. Let’s be real double mail isn’t actually THAT bad most the time compared to covering extra areas with the mountain of tracked shite we receive daily.
Martin and Dave in there genius gave us a worse version of 3 coving 4 jobs than was originally planned.

[reddevils]

But what happens when DM26 fails with full CWU involvement?

RM are going to have a field day
[/quote]

Thats the sad thing because the Union can't win because by trying to mitgate what Royal Mail had planned they are now deemed authors of the
system. If its a complete failure responsibility will be deflected to it as being a union failure despite the fact royal mail had already initiated this system and pressured Off com to enable its execution.

There was never going to be an alternative though. People are critical of the union for trying to have influence on the system that had been planned but what measures could the union adopt?
Would people have been prepared to go on strike? No. The same people that will let everyone know its all the fault of the union and not of Royal Mail. Would they have striked against this new system? No.

So the only option was for the Union to attempt to influence how the new ways of working are carried out.

The fact is Offcom have authorised non delivery of mail on Saturdays and increased the time required for delivery of second class mail. These are the new rules now regardless of what you think about the Union. So duties were always going to be alternated.

The fact is Royal Mail is heading for a car crash and the Union is powerless to stop it. Its just a case of how many cars are involved in the buildup that the union are trying to prevent!

[reddevils]

For the shared vans which make up a large percentage of the jobs now I genuinely think Dave and Martin have agreed something worse than the ODM with this DM26 nonsense. Yes the pair in the shared vans would be doing double mail all the time on the full delivery but at least you would only be covering the area of two deliveries. This DM26 shite means your still doing double mail on half a van share anyway then your faffing about with 2 thirds of other areas in which again some of it is double mail. You’re covering a huge area with all the small tracked and first class and you are also ramming the van with the extra large parcels from this area.
Looking at the bollocks longer attendance hours under DM26 i honestly believe it would have been easier on the longer shift patterns to just do the original ODM model. Let’s be real double mail isn’t actually THAT bad most the time compared to covering extra areas with the mountain of tracked shite we receive daily.
Martin and Dave in there genius gave us a worse version of 3 coving 4 jobs than was originally planned.

I don't agree with this at all. Royal Mail were looking at lapsing other walks on top of the two duties you were taking double/ triple mail on. It is absolutely exhausting doing double/triple mail for a full duty and to do that every day and also lapse another walk would be far too much.

[toonshola]

For the shared vans which make up a large percentage of the jobs now I genuinely think Dave and Martin have agreed something worse than the ODM with this DM26 nonsense. Yes the pair in the shared vans would be doing double mail all the time on the full delivery but at least you would only be covering the area of two deliveries. This DM26 shite means your still doing double mail on half a van share anyway then your faffing about with 2 thirds of other areas in which again some of it is double mail. You’re covering a huge area with all the small tracked and first class and you are also ramming the van with the extra large parcels from this area.
Looking at the bollocks longer attendance hours under DM26 i honestly believe it would have been easier on the longer shift patterns to just do the original ODM model. Let’s be real double mail isn’t actually THAT bad most the time compared to covering extra areas with the mountain of tracked shite we receive daily.
Martin and Dave in there genius gave us a worse version of 3 coving 4 jobs than was originally planned.

I don't agree with this at all. Royal Mail were looking at lapsing other walks on top of the two duties you were taking double/ triple mail on. It is absolutely exhausting doing double/triple mail for a full duty and to do that every day and also lapse another walk would be far too much.

You think they won’t be lapsing under DM26? Give it 6 months to bed in and you can bet they will. Ideally none of this would be brought in as none of it is realistic but let’s not pretend the union have agreed anything beneficial for us, they have completely thrown us under a bus then stomped on us as we emerge on the other side.

[A2B]

I don't agree with this at all. Royal Mail were looking at lapsing other walks on top of the two duties you were taking double/ triple mail on. It is absolutely exhausting doing double/triple mail for a full duty and to do that every day and also lapse another walk would be far too much.

It's exhausting now mate!

RM can give me all the work they want and the PDA will show me working at a steady pace using the correct procedures.

It's RM's job to allocate the workload, why the CWU put their head in the noose over this is beyond me, they really are going to take a kicking over this and I'm not sure they will recover

[reddevils]

If there was no agreement on a plan, what were you prepared to do?
Royal Mail would have brought their own system in as an executive decision.

So I would like to know the answer what were you prepared to do to stop Royal Mail from implementing it?
What is it that you wanted from the Union?
Would you have been prepared to strike?
What system do you propose, bear in mind the new Off com regulations and rules we work under now. Any plan has to involve double mail
because duties were always going to be alternated. What did you want the Union to do for you?

I'm just interested because everyone seems to be critical of the union but nobody proposes solutions or has any ideas.

Its easy to destroy something, be critical and dismissive. Its more difficult to analyse the situation and have an understanding and possibly come up with ideas.

If the Union would have done nothing and allowed the system to come in as Royal Mail wanted, the same people would be critical
of the unions actions. So the Union can't win with these people.

[Ivor Smallbone]

I pay cwu to sort things out, let the top 50 cwu blokes have a go at dm26, Lets see Ward Walsh earn their 140k a year, why should I sort their mess out

[A2B]

100% I was and am prepared to strike but the CWU have not even mentioned a ballot for strike action for a few years now. What the CWU have done in the last couple of years for it's members is gone for broke trying to fight an unwinnable battle for equalisation and that's working out well for them.

I and probably many others are waiting for the vote on duty structure before leaving the CWU. Not that it really matters but I voted against DM26 as it was but it's got progressively worse as it gets to the frontline, I truely believe it would have been thrown out if it had been presented in its current state at the time of the ballot.

RM employ people to manage their company and unless you think they are deliberately trying to destroy what they bought then you would hope they would have the answers rather than relying on the CWU to magically come up with a system that turns the company around.

[tramssirhc]

If there was no agreement on a plan, what were you prepared to do?
Royal Mail would have brought their own system in as an executive decision.

So I would like to know the answer what were you prepared to do to stop Royal Mail from implementing it?
What is it that you wanted from the Union?
Would you have been prepared to strike?
What system do you propose, bear in mind the new Off com regulations and rules we work under now. Any plan has to involve double mail
because duties were always going to be alternated. What did you want the Union to do for you?

I'm just interested because everyone seems to be critical of the union but nobody proposes solutions or has any ideas.

Its easy to destroy something, be critical and dismissive. Its more difficult to analyse the situation and have an understanding and possibly come up with ideas.

If the Union would have done nothing and allowed the system to come in as Royal Mail wanted, the same people would be critical
of the unions actions. So the Union can't win with these people.

If Walsh had let the rank and file direct the process then there would not be the backlash he faces now. This is what happens when trade union bureaucrats think they know best. The question you need to ask is why the CWU failed so badly not why we are so critical.

[reddevils]

If Walsh had let the rank and file direct the process then there would not be the backlash he faces now. This is what happens when trade union bureaucrats think they know best. The question you need to ask is why the CWU failed so badly not why we are so critical.
[/quote]

I don't believe this. I don't believe the rank and file can direct the process. The problem in the present world is people are not educated about political/Union Affairs. Neither do they have interest either. Most members in the Union expect the Union to be hierarchical and people at the top to make decisions for them because they don't have the bandwith or the understanding to participate in a real union movement.

They just expect. Alot of it is entitlement. They don't want to be part of the process itself.

At one time people fought for each other in Unions. They were all informed and could discuss different view points. They had a real knowledge of the history of how workers have been exploited throughout history and knew how important participating in a Union was. There are a great number of offices in Royal Mail that don't have Union Reps because there is no interest in being one. There are lots of offices with Union reps that are woeful that simply take the role to look after themselves. In addition to this when you look at Union conferences it looks like a geriatric conference. You can't have rank and file without young, energetic people having passion for the cause and the Unions lacks this.

So I disagree. I don't think rank and file directing the process would have had better outcomes.

[Perseus]

For the shared vans which make up a large percentage of the jobs now I genuinely think Dave and Martin have agreed something worse than the ODM with this DM26 nonsense. Yes the pair in the shared vans would be doing double mail all the time on the full delivery but at least you would only be covering the area of two deliveries. This DM26 shite means your still doing double mail on half a van share anyway then your faffing about with 2 thirds of other areas in which again some of it is double mail. You’re covering a huge area with all the small tracked and first class and you are also ramming the van with the extra large parcels from this area.
Looking at the bollocks longer attendance hours under DM26 i honestly believe it would have been easier on the longer shift patterns to just do the original ODM model. Let’s be real double mail isn’t actually THAT bad most the time compared to covering extra areas with the mountain of tracked shite we receive daily.
Martin and Dave in there genius gave us a worse version of 3 coving 4 jobs than was originally planned.

The 2 things that 'killed' the ODM was people having to learn whole new duties and the complaints of fatigue.
DM26 apparently solved these issues. Now you have to learn 2/3 of another duty and fatigue has been removed by walking huge distances on the 'light' loops only doing 1C and packets. (how????)
Can someone tell me how the fatigue element has been solved?
If I'm doing 2-3 days mail on a single duty, i'm calling at 70% of houses. (ODM)
If I'm doing 4-5 bags of heavy and 4-5 bags of light on the same duty then 1/3 of another duty on heavy/light (DM26) I will absolutely be doing more work/using more energy versus ODM.

[reddevils]

The 2 things that 'killed' the ODM was people having to learn whole new duties and the complaints of fatigue.
DM26 apparently solved these issues. Now you have to learn 2/3 of another duty and fatigue has been removed by walking huge distances on the 'light' loops only doing 1C and packets. (how????)
Can someone tell me how the fatigue element has been solved?
If I'm doing 2-3 days mail on a single duty, i'm calling at 70% of houses. (ODM)
If I'm doing 4-5 bags of heavy and 4-5 bags of light on the same duty then 1/3 of another duty on heavy/light (DM26) I will absolutely be doing more work/using more energy versus ODM.
[/quote]

Because this is wrong.

You are doing 4 bags of heavy mail and 4 bags of 1st class and tracked. You both take 3 Bags of mail from your own duty and 3 bags of 1st and tracked. You take 1 bag each of heavy mail of the third of another duty and both 1 bag of 1st and tracked.

All together= 4 bags of heavy mail. 4 Loops of 1st and tracked. 8 Bags/loops.

Not 4-5 bags of heavy and 4-5 bags of light which if taking 5 as the number equals 10 bags. Then you are adding the 1/3 of a duty on top of this as well which results in 12 bags.
This is wrong and not factual. You are taking 4 bags of heavy and 4 bags of light all together. So 8 loops in total.