3 into 4 v Current Structure

[gb93]

Does moving to 3 into 4 involve more work for 3 posties to do compared with current 4 posties in 2 shared van model.
Will it take longer time wise/will it be more physically demanding

[clashcityrocker]

Yes. Yes and yes.

[norris9]

Current:

No day off cover - 2 days mail guaranteed once a week.

Duties larger.

Letter volume: Medium


3 into 4:

You would expect there to be day off cover otherwise what's the point in trying to finally meet USO requirements.

Duties might get smaller.

Letter volume: Heavy on one duty, light on the other.


At the end of the day.... van-sharing will always be inefficient. Having a 1pm cut off for Specials often screws van shares over.

[norris9]

Something I had not thought about before....

So one frame with be heavy and one frame will be light....

= one postie will take far longer to prep and bag-up than the other....

= disaster.

Heavy rounds will take ages to prep and bag up that you will always be out late.

[claretandblue]

Something I had not thought about before....

So one frame with be heavy and one frame will be light....

= one postie will take far longer to prep and bag-up than the other....

= disaster.

Heavy rounds will take ages to prep and bag up that you will always be out late.

How? 1 will be up sorting and 1 will be prepping as now.

[gb93]

So if moving to 2 in 5 duty pattern from 1 in 6 is the excess duty time built in to the new duty pattern 3 into 4.
Meaning for example if the shifts will be 30 mins longer is that built into the new 3 into 4 way of working or are do we get extra 30 mins to do similar/less workload than now

[Pfrizzy10]

Work to your time and you will be doing exactly the same as you do now.

[clashcityrocker]

Something I had not thought about before....

So one frame with be heavy and one frame will be light....

= one postie will take far longer to prep and bag-up than the other....

= disaster.

Heavy rounds will take ages to prep and bag up that you will always be out late.

Here are some other things you haven't thought about.
There are 4 duties to prep.
There are 3 posties covering the 4 duties.
The longer time bagging up the heavier sections will be compensated by the time saved bagging up lighter sections perhaps?

Here are some things I thought about:
It is one thing to say first class mail accounts for 5% of traffic, but if you deliver to an area where they subscribe to Private Eye, The Economist, Spectator or Guardian Week etc you get a lot more first class mail than other areas where they don't.
What happens when your heavy loop is 3 bags worth? Will you have to reconfigure your loops every day?

Whose stupid idea was this?

[postslippete]

It is one thing to say first class mail accounts for 5% of traffic, but if you deliver to an area where they subscribe to Private Eye, The Economist, Spectator or Guardian Week etc you get a lot more first class mail than other areas where they don't.

Yes the model is more Saturdays off as only 1st class letters and parcels are required to be delivered.

Discussions are ongoing over whether the 1st class should just come in raw to the Delivery office so it would arrive earlier. Remember first class only accounts for 8% of Royal Mails total letter volume.

[norris9]

Something I had not thought about before....

So one frame with be heavy and one frame will be light....

= one postie will take far longer to prep and bag-up than the other....

= disaster.

Heavy rounds will take ages to prep and bag up that you will always be out late.

How? 1 will be up sorting and 1 will be prepping as now.

There's days now where a van share partnership comes back from their day off and 1 of the duties went out the previous day, 1 didn't....

Inevitably it's always the postie with the 2 days' mail that takes much longer to bag-up.


If this is how the heavy and light way of working is planned.... then not sure it's going to be particularly efficient. Yeah the postie with the lighter round can get ahead on door2doors whilst waiting, but every day posties will be getting out much later than they currently do.

[funkflex55]

It isn't just one walk of heavy and one walk of light when it comes to van shares.

Example using walks 1 2 3 4 Monday

Van share will do
3 days mail on all of walk 1
Plus tracked and first class on walk 2
Plus 2 loops of 2/3 days mail on walk 3
Plus 2 loops of tracked first class on walk 3

Singleton will.do
4 loops of 4 days mail from a bit of walk 3 and 4
4 loops of tracked and 1st class from a bit of walk 3 and walk 4

This then rotates so that the loops done the next day and so forth are the opposite when it comes to what's 2/3 days mail and what is tracked and 1st class.

Is it overly complicated? Yes
Will it work ? No
Do RM management have the brains.to land it? No
Who voted it in? Hardly anyone
Is it 3 people doing the work of 4? Yes

[ted_e_bear]

It isn't just one walk of heavy and one walk of light when it comes to van shares.

Example using walks 1 2 3 4 Monday

Van share will do
3 days mail on all of walk 1
Plus tracked and first class on walk 2
Plus 2 loops of 2/3 days mail on walk 3
Plus 2 loops of tracked first class on walk 3

Singleton will.do
4 loops of 4 days mail from a bit of walk 3 and 4
4 loops of tracked and 1st class from a bit of walk 3 and walk 4

This then rotates so that the loops done the next day and so forth are the opposite when it comes to what's 2/3 days mail and what is tracked and 1st class.

Is it overly complicated? Yes
Will it work ? No
Do RM management have the brains.to land it? No
Who voted it in? Hardly anyone
Is it 3 people doing the work of 4? Yes

Myself and others have said this - why not make it really simple by having all duties oversized with the intention that you do 50 50 like proposed for rurals and singletons that aren't suitable for van share.

They'd get the 25% staff saving as 4 duties would be spread out into 3 big duties that you'd rotate delivering 50% everything and 50% parcels+1c.

Also that would apply to the rurals/singletons make them bigger.

Is it just me or is that a better idea ?

Or is that too easy ffs.

[tramssirhc]

Does moving to 3 into 4 involve more work for 3 posties to do compared with current 4 posties in 2 shared van model.
Will it take longer time wise/will it be more physically demanding

The short answer is it is 3 workers doing 4 workers jobs. There are numerous adjustments to the traffic so the workload will be different to the pre-DM26 profile. Really it's lapsing 1 in 4 duties with adjustment to the traffic. The agreement does say that the process is not complete until the office clears the daily workload every day. Part of the planning should be looking at duties and if they are within the specifications. The POD set up will not work with an uneven workload so putting 4 out of spec duties into 1 POD won't work. DM26 also needs all duties assigned a duty holder and for the leave reserve ratio to be correct (1 in 6).

[claretandblue]

Something I had not thought about before....

So one frame with be heavy and one frame will be light....

= one postie will take far longer to prep and bag-up than the other....

= disaster.

Heavy rounds will take ages to prep and bag up that you will always be out late.

How? 1 will be up sorting and 1 will be prepping as now.

There's days now where a van share partnership comes back from their day off and 1 of the duties went out the previous day, 1 didn't....

Inevitably it's always the postie with the 2 days' mail that takes much longer to bag-up.


If this is how the heavy and light way of working is planned.... then not sure it's going to be particularly efficient. Yeah the postie with the lighter round can get ahead on door2doors whilst waiting, but every day posties will be getting out much later than they currently do.

We currently are clearing one side and doing first class and tracked on the other, I box the tracked and first class up while my partner bundles his loops, then I bundle mine. We've always bundled our own loops.

[Thommo44]

Does moving to 3 into 4 involve more work for 3 posties to do compared with current 4 posties in 2 shared van model.
Will it take longer time wise/will it be more physically demanding

The short answer is it is 3 workers doing 4 workers jobs. There are numerous adjustments to the traffic so the workload will be different to the pre-DM26 profile. Really it's lapsing 1 in 4 duties with adjustment to the traffic. The agreement does say that the process is not complete until the office clears the daily workload every day. Part of the planning should be looking at duties and if they are within the specifications. The POD set up will not work with an uneven workload so putting 4 out of spec duties into 1 POD won't work. DM26 also needs all duties assigned a duty holder and for the leave reserve ratio to be correct (1 in 6).

Are there any duty specifications?
If there are, they are not adhering to them. Does anyone have an outline of these specifications?