Strike ‘put city’s mail site at risk’

[borders]

Well, shoot me down all you like but from where most people sit, this battle is lost, dead, buried.

not sure what battle you are referring to, but to quote the great Manic Street Preachers - if you tolerate this, then your children will be next.

[Night Tonic]

Best have a word with the Manic Street Preachers then

[Night Tonic]

NT it's quite obvious your on the dark side and your vision is somewhat blured by old st. The term 'modernisation' this term is usualy used as a smokescreen by incompetent managers etc to hide the reality of there intentions. which in this case is to undermine it's staff and create a workforce that is subserviant. Any deviation from the 'set' plans is not welcome even if it is common sense. We can see what is going wrong why can't they but the bottom line is the likes of crazier and lieton are there for the money only and don't give a stuff if it goes ti** up

I guess if you can't take too much on board, pigeon-holing is your best bet. Entirely agree on the imposition of Leightonand Crozier - just don't agee with all the yampy union nonsense that is all talk and no trousers.

[borders]

NT it's quite obvious your on the dark side and your vision is somewhat blured by old st. The term 'modernisation' this term is usualy used as a smokescreen by incompetent managers etc to hide the reality of there intentions. which in this case is to undermine it's staff and create a workforce that is subserviant. Any deviation from the 'set' plans is not welcome even if it is common sense. We can see what is going wrong why can't they but the bottom line is the likes of crazier and lieton are there for the money only and don't give a stuff if it goes ti** up

I guess if you can't take too much on board, pigeon-holing is your best bet. Entirely agree on the imposition of Leightonand Crozier - just don't agee with all the yampy union nonsense that is all talk and no trousers.

yampy

U.K back country midlands slang for someone a bit over the top and retarded, someone with a backwards mentality,

did ya see that last night on tv, them right yamps on the jerry springer show aye they

are yome a yampy get n' all, yove bin watchin it too long, thats the matter with yo maytey

this is for anyone who was not sure what yampy meant , obviously people like the Tolpuddle Martyrs , Chartism ,Annie Besant, and the London Dockers Strike to name a few , were all a waste of time and did nothing to improve all of our lifes. you obviously know or care very little about Union Traditions and Achievements , which makes your Yampy insult rather sour.

[Night Tonic]

I have no feelings either way on union traditions, although respect to those that do. I have MASSES of respect for skills we've lost though. What gets up my nose is all this 'fight for this' and 'fight for that' but no notion how that is to be achieved. Lets be real here, the CWU were badly advised by someone and despite a ballot and Hayes saying that pension changes were reversible, basically the union didn't close the agreement properly and when the pension WAS changed, there wasn't a thing they could do about it - hence the unpopularity of Hayes and Ward now. Not that a change of leader will make any odds now. And what a short time ago it was when both of them could do no wrong.

[borders]

I have no feelings either way on union traditions, although respect to those that do. I have MASSES of respect for skills we've lost though. What gets up my nose is all this 'fight for this' and 'fight for that' but no notion how that is to be achieved. Lets be real here, the CWU were badly advised by someone and despite a ballot and Hayes saying that pension changes were reversible, basically the union didn't close the agreement properly and when the pension WAS changed, there wasn't a thing they could do about it - hence the unpopularity of Hayes and Ward now. Not that a change of leader will make any odds now. And what a short time ago it was when both of them could do no wrong.

well at last we can maybe agree on something !! globalisation has changed the world we live in forever, hence the reason why we have lost a lot of the skills you mention. i agree with your views regarding our top union men, they will never really be able to deliver in the constraints of a capitalist system. at our last AGM we had one of the top union men speak and all he talked about was doing deals with the management. doing deals here and doing deals there but in my eyes all these deals have gradually stripped away many of our good conditions. quite frankly they committed daylight robbery regarding our pensions and they now want us all to pay for it with worser pension agreements. i guess you are right there probably is not a lot we can do about because the union does become a buffer between the workers anger and the management , and the management use the union to get want they want out of the workers as much as we try to use the union for our gains. however, like the people and movements i mentioned before they stood up for the working people and helped improve there / our lifes and we must continue that fight because the battle is still ongoing.

[left739]

Night Tonic wrote:
I have no feelings either way on union traditions, although respect to those that do. I have MASSES of respect for skills we've lost though. What gets up my nose is all this 'fight for this' and 'fight for that' but no notion how that is to be achieved. Lets be real here, the CWU were badly advised by someone and despite a ballot and Hayes saying that pension changes were reversible, basically the union didn't close the agreement properly and when the pension WAS changed, there wasn't a thing they could do about it - hence the unpopularity of Hayes and Ward now. Not that a change of leader will make any odds now. And what a short time ago it was when both of them could do no wrong.
Borders wrote:
well at last we can maybe agree on something !! globalisation has changed the world we live in forever, hence the reason why we have lost a lot of the skills you mention. i agree with your views regarding our top union men, they will never really be able to deliver in the constraints of a capitalist system. at our last AGM we had one of the top union men speak and all he talked about was doing deals with the management. doing deals here and doing deals there but in my eyes all these deals have gradually stripped away many of our good conditions. quite frankly they committed daylight robbery regarding our pensions and they now want us all to pay for it with worser pension agreements. i guess you are right there probably is not a lot we can do about because the union does become a buffer between the workers anger and the management , and the management use the union to get want they want out of the workers as much as we try to use the union for our gains. however, like the people and movements i mentioned before they stood up for the working people and helped improve there / our lifes and we must continue that fight because the battle is still ongoing.

I think you really express well the contradictory role of the union. Wellput Borders!!!

We have no choice but to keep fighting because we are in a fight that started before we were born and will go on till we get rid of the capitalist class...

Hayes and ward are not willing to lead the kind of fight that would be necessary to make RM and the government backdown over pensions. I think that it would take action from below like Liverpool was willing to put up last year but spreading throughout the country to make them backdown. We would need to control and spread the strike from below to avoid being hung out to dry like Liverpool were last year. Unfortunatly we don't seem up for it right now

[DGP1]

I happen to agree with Night Tonic that the fight was lost as soon as Ward and Hayes agreed to defer it from the main dispute but that said can we not come on here a voice our anger at the situation and to blame all those who (over the many years) where at fault?

I'd like to nominate Robert Maxwell as the one who is to blame for the whole pensions debacle (because he raid the Mirror pension fund and because he's dead and you cannot liable the dead ).

[Tman]

I happen to agree with Night Tonic that the fight was lost as soon as Ward and Hayes agreed to defer it from the main dispute but that said can we not come on here a voice our anger at the situation and to blame all those who (over the many years) where at fault?

I'd like to nominate Robert Maxwell as the one who is to blame for the whole pensions debacle (because he raid the Mirror pension fund and because he's dead and you cannot liable the dead ).

Why, he illegaly misappropriated the Mirror Group pension fund for his comany's use, whereas RM (under legal and financial advice) took a contributions holiday.
Any similarity?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Perhaps the Mossad are secret parteners in our pensions .

Oh I think it was a joke not a statement of fact or opnion on DG1s part.

[Tman]

You never can tell.
Some jokes on here turn out to be poster's deadly serious views on current events...

[DGP1]

You never can tell.
Some jokes on here turn out to be poster's deadly serious views on current events...

Try having a sense of humour for a change instead of just having the same boring view that everything revolves around RM's view of the world.

And as for my comment on Robert Maxwell, two very nice men with Israeli accents have asked to say that his death was a complete accident

[Tman]

You never can tell.
Some jokes on here turn out to be poster's deadly serious views on current events...

Try having a sense of humour for a change instead of just having the same boring view that everything revolves around RM's view of the world

.

OK, done that as requested.
No, nothing's changed; still going to get less pension no matter who posts what load of hypothetical rallying calls and fighting talk on here.
How about you (and others) realising that RM would dearly love to pay posties £500 per week plus loads of overtime plus a pension of £1000 per week, because that's how to keep the staff morale up and increase productivity, but there you go, back in the real world realism (unfortunately) prevails, and there IS no magic cupboard stuffed full of spare cash to pay for these things.
Still, keep on talking the good talk, eh?

[borders]

You never can tell.
Some jokes on here turn out to be poster's deadly serious views on current events...

Try having a sense of humour for a change instead of just having the same boring view that everything revolves around RM's view of the world

.

OK, done that as requested.
No, nothing's changed; still going to get less pension no matter who posts what load of hypothetical rallying calls and fighting talk on here.
How about you (and others) realising that RM would dearly love to pay posties £500 per week plus loads of overtime plus a pension of £1000 per week, because that's how to keep the staff morale up and increase productivity, but there you go, back in the real world realism (unfortunately) prevails, and there IS no magic cupboard stuffed full of spare cash to pay for these things.
Still, keep on talking the good talk, eh?

of course no one individual can change the predicament we are all in , and you are right talk is cheap, but the idea is to engage people in conversation and hopefully build a movement, and in solidarity change things. easier said than done and it is very difficult to do these days, but history shows it is possible ??

[DGP1]