Let's talk about the weather - CWU Live at 5pm today

[TopperGas]

certainly no loss, no gain being with them either

Until you need their support for an issue!

[qwerty2]

certainly no loss, no gain being with them either

Until you need their support for an issue! l

[POSTMAN]

[tramssirhc]

certainly no loss, no gain being with them either

Until you need their support for an issue!

There's plenty of other bodies that can support workers if they need help. The CWU has no exclusivity on helping workers. The only thing the CWU has is sole collective bargaining rights for OPG's. That's it. And look at the way the CWU waste it.

[scotchy1962]

I only joined the CWU when i realised what direction the company was heading in and thought i might need to stand at the gates with everyone else, which i did.
I was a shop steward in a factory in the late 80's/90's and when i seen the inner workings of unions i became disillusioned with them and took nothing to do with them. Even then they were already becoming to self serving for my liking.
When i joined RM i didn't join and for 15 years of my 18 years i did without and if you have a little knowledge of workplace law you are perfectly capable of standing your ground with any manager, as long as you are right, which i did for all those years without any problem and i even dealt with a tyrant, who was our dom for a while, so well the guys wanted me to takeover as shop steward and were amazed when i told them i wasn't a member.
Thing is even i knew that when real industrial action came, with real problems for us guys and not the usual pay rise, that i would have to join and be part of the fight.
Joining Unite is a pretty daft idea as you need to be together to get anything, although the CWU is proving to be a disappointment and i find it difficult to say anything positive about them, i don't envy you guys going forward and unless the top brass in the union grow some i don't know where you will end up.

[postslippete]

At times, I wonder whether the CWU doesn't just look like it is sitting on the same side of the table as management - it looks like they have ordered from the same menu. The membership has already seen the union cave in once, so it's hardly surprising there is zero appetite for strike action. RM crossed the union's red lines and then proceeded to p*ss all over them, while our office has effectively become the local job centre for new hires on worse pay, terms and conditions. The two-tier workforce is that firmly embedded it might well be part of company logo.

The union's response? Write to your MP.... I'm sure that would be top of the government's to-do list somewhere between the NHS crisis, cost of living, immigration, defence and energy policy. I never understood the union's enthusiasm to be at the forefront of pushing through USO trials when everyone on the shop floor could see that they were unworkable. They knew the imposed revisions after the strikes crushed morale and service standards yet still backed this process. So were they doing this for the workforce or to preserve their seats at the boardroom table?

Hard to say now the trials have failed, but at least there is one thing we can rely on: stability. Even if it's only the union leadership's version if it.

[Mr Rush]

I never understood the union's enthusiasm to be at the forefront of pushing through USO trials when everyone on the shop floor could see that they were unworkable.

Part of the 'reset' in industrial relations. With no bloody bargaining position, the union had to be seen to give peace a chance. The love-in with EP Group is ending, however.

Tune in next week when we discuss fireguards. RM wants to introduce dark chocolate by executive action, but we are making members' calls for milk chocolate heard.

[tramssirhc]

I only joined the CWU when i realised what direction the company was heading in and thought i might need to stand at the gates with everyone else, which i did.
I was a shop steward in a factory in the late 80's/90's and when i seen the inner workings of unions i became disillusioned with them and took nothing to do with them. Even then they were already becoming to self serving for my liking.
When i joined RM i didn't join and for 15 years of my 18 years i did without and if you have a little knowledge of workplace law you are perfectly capable of standing your ground with any manager, as long as you are right, which i did for all those years without any problem and i even dealt with a tyrant, who was our dom for a while, so well the guys wanted me to takeover as shop steward and were amazed when i told them i wasn't a member.
Thing is even i knew that when real industrial action came, with real problems for us guys and not the usual pay rise, that i would have to join and be part of the fight.
Joining Unite is a pretty daft idea as you need to be together to get anything, although the CWU is proving to be a disappointment and i find it difficult to say anything positive about them, i don't envy you guys going forward and unless the top brass in the union grow some i don't know where you will end up.

Workers don't need to join the CWU to stand on the gates. If we ever get to that point again, which is very doubtful as it was 50 years between strike action last time, workers can stand with the CWU without being in it. The strike of 1971 hung over us until 2021. The strike of 2022 will linger for much much longer.

[Tman]

Unite will happily take you as a member and apart from the collective bargaining matters you'll get a better service.

Of course they would. Income for no effort on their part.
So apart from "collective bargaining matters" (something most would consider to be actually the main point of union membership) and the inability to officially represent you (particularly on RM premises) what's the "better service"? What does it consist of?

[scotchy1962]

I only joined the CWU when i realised what direction the company was heading in and thought i might need to stand at the gates with everyone else, which i did.
I was a shop steward in a factory in the late 80's/90's and when i seen the inner workings of unions i became disillusioned with them and took nothing to do with them. Even then they were already becoming to self serving for my liking.
When i joined RM i didn't join and for 15 years of my 18 years i did without and if you have a little knowledge of workplace law you are perfectly capable of standing your ground with any manager, as long as you are right, which i did for all those years without any problem and i even dealt with a tyrant, who was our dom for a while, so well the guys wanted me to takeover as shop steward and were amazed when i told them i wasn't a member.
Thing is even i knew that when real industrial action came, with real problems for us guys and not the usual pay rise, that i would have to join and be part of the fight.
Joining Unite is a pretty daft idea as you need to be together to get anything, although the CWU is proving to be a disappointment and i find it difficult to say anything positive about them, i don't envy you guys going forward and unless the top brass in the union grow some i don't know where you will end up.

Workers don't need to join the CWU to stand on the gates. If we ever get to that point again, which is very doubtful as it was 50 years between strike action last time, workers can stand with the CWU without being in it. The strike of 1971 hung over us until 2021. The strike of 2022 will linger for much much longer.

You are correct Trams, you don't need to be in the union to stand at the gate, but being part of it gives a protection that not being in the union doesn't. Plus you are part of a collective and the protections that entails. I know that if the company came after you while out on a picket line, even if not in the union, you have certain protections that you could take legal action over it's just easier in the herd and not out there on your own.
When dealing with managers and not in the union it is pretty simple, manager oversteps the mark and he is personally liable to you in a court or industrial tribunal as well as the company and they tend to be wary of non union members and keep them onside.
As for strikes, i believe i have said before i don't really believe in withdrawing labour in a company run on overtime, o/t bans will bring them to their knees in days/weeks, the problem is getting people to realise this, all they can see is less money, but long run they will win.
Sometimes people are a bit daft, but then again maybe i am wrong.

[postslippete]

As for strikes, i believe i have said before i don't really believe in withdrawing labour in a company run on overtime, o/t bans will bring them to their knees in days/weeks, the problem is getting people to realise this, all they can see is less money, but long run they will win.
Sometimes people are a bit daft, but then again maybe i am wrong.

100% scotchy

RM now runs on overtime as standard, especially as it doesn't have fully resourced duties or stable staffing. It is still heavily reliant on voluntary overtime and that is the real barrier because staff are so used to it topping up their wages. The all-out strike during the worst cost of living crisis hurt workers directly with lost pay and rising bills but RM held firm as they could use managers and agency in the short term.

Maybe I'm wrong but a workforce that only works its contracted hours might be far more harmful to RM than one which walks out entirely. What we have witnessed in our office are days worth of bulk mail being left in trays/frames and that backlog does compound issues when RM still want to prioritise it's parcels which have recently exploded.

[thefox]

I only joined the CWU when i realised what direction the company was heading in and thought i might need to stand at the gates with everyone else, which i did.
I was a shop steward in a factory in the late 80's/90's and when i seen the inner workings of unions i became disillusioned with them and took nothing to do with them. Even then they were already becoming to self serving for my liking.
When i joined RM i didn't join and for 15 years of my 18 years i did without and if you have a little knowledge of workplace law you are perfectly capable of standing your ground with any manager, as long as you are right, which i did for all those years without any problem and i even dealt with a tyrant, who was our dom for a while, so well the guys wanted me to takeover as shop steward and were amazed when i told them i wasn't a member.
Thing is even i knew that when real industrial action came, with real problems for us guys and not the usual pay rise, that i would have to join and be part of the fight.
Joining Unite is a pretty daft idea as you need to be together to get anything, although the CWU is proving to be a disappointment and i find it difficult to say anything positive about them, i don't envy you guys going forward and unless the top brass in the union grow some i don't know where you will end up.

Workers don't need to join the CWU to stand on the gates. If we ever get to that point again, which is very doubtful as it was 50 years between strike action last time, workers can stand with the CWU without being in it. The strike of 1971 hung over us until 2021. The strike of 2022 will linger for much much longer.

You are correct Trams, you don't need to be in the union to stand at the gate, but being part of it gives a protection that not being in the union doesn't. Plus you are part of a collective and the protections that entails. I know that if the company came after you while out on a picket line, even if not in the union, you have certain protections that you could take legal action over it's just easier in the herd and not out there on your own.
When dealing with managers and not in the union it is pretty simple, manager oversteps the mark and he is personally liable to you in a court or industrial tribunal as well as the company and they tend to be wary of non union members and keep them onside.
As for strikes, i believe i have said before i don't really believe in withdrawing labour in a company run on overtime, o/t bans will bring them to their knees in days/weeks, the problem is getting people to realise this, all they can see is less money, but long run they will win.
Sometimes people are a bit daft, but then again maybe i am wrong.

Your not wrong.

[tramssirhc]

Unite will happily take you as a member and apart from the collective bargaining matters you'll get a better service.

Of course they would. Income for no effort on their part.
So apart from "collective bargaining matters" (something most would consider to be actually the main point of union membership) and the inability to officially represent you (particularly on RM premises) what's the "better service"? What does it consist of?

Unite can represent workers in all matters except for grade specific bargaining if they don't have an agreement for that grade. The CWU offers nothing else that Unite cannot do. It's not about Unite and their inabilities. Workers are leaving and not joining the CWU because of it's inabilities. The CWU spends a lot of time begging other unions to rescue it, including Unite. Have a word with your leaders and ask them why they want to merge with Unite.

[Woody84]

New contract folk to make a stand and refuse Sunday working. Can’t imagine the union backing it though but that would make the big wigs take notice.

[Tman]

Unite can represent workers in all matters except for grade specific bargaining

So when someone's on some sort of disciplinary charge and called in for a meeting with a boss, they call a Unite representative, who isn't allowed access to RM premises/is on leave/is busy doing something else/isn't familiar with RM rules/is miles away, what then? You're only given a reasonable amount of time to allow your rep to attend.
The CWU reps can be clueless enough, but add in someone who's never worked for RM and the possibilities for useless representation grow very quickly.

"I don't care how Bloggins Transport do it, RM doesn't do it like that and never have".


That's if the RM hierarchy will even let them in the building.