As I said in my original comment, us new-entrant posties certainly can’t complete a duty like some legacy posties, ie, stringing it out and doing the bare minimum. Not tarring all with the same brush, I hasten to add — just responding to the generalised comment and assertion above in the thread about new-starters not being able to “compete a duty” like the experienced posties they replace…
It was never my intention to turn this discussion into some sort of legacy vs new starter blame culture. It's not really a question about who competes a duty better. The issues are structural and the churn speaks for itself when over half of all the new entrants that joined RM on the new contracts have now left the business. Why do you think that is?
Is it the fact that new starters realise that they are doing the same job for significantly less money? Is it because the job wasn't what they expected and there are unachievable workloads with heavier parcels, collections and increased pressure? There is certainly a lot of dis-organisation and constant tinkering about what work we should be prioritising on a daily basis - is it all the tracked parcels, the tracked 24s or the 5 days worth of mail? Or is it the fact that people are being moved from pillar to post on different duties or even different offices with little stability?
Pay and contracts matter but so does the environment that they are walking into. Low morale, constant pressure and a lack of structure may all feed into their decision to leave. This isn't about laziness or a lack of resilience but a system that no longer makes sense for the people that are expected to work in it. Amazon might be ruthless in the way that it recycles through its workforce but it is efficient whereas in RM it's just managed chaos!!
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
It was never my intention to turn this discussion into some sort of legacy vs new starter blame culture. It's not really a question about who competes a duty better. The issues are structural and the churn speaks for itself when over half of all the new entrants that joined RM on the new contracts have now left the business. Why do you think that is?
Nor mine. I was responding specifically to comments about “competing a duty”.
But to answer your question — lack of consistency, ie being moved from pillar to post every day, imho is the principal reason for the high churn of new-entrant staff.
They don't care about experience anymore just want people they can dictate to, you can take an extra loop each etc etc
My vast experience enables me to manage my frame properly, I know roughly how long it will take, what you can shift in that time. There's lots of people out there only been here a few years but are suddenly experts lol try telling you what to do and how to do it. As for managers they have never done your walk before but seem to know everything!
They don't care about experience anymore just want people they can dictate to, you can take an extra loop each etc etc
My vast experience enables me to manage my frame properly, I know roughly how long it will take, what you can shift in that time. There's lots of people out there only been here a few years but are suddenly experts lol try telling you what to do and how to do it. As for managers they have never done your walk before but seem to know everything!
Careful now..... you might antagonise some on here as "experience" does not give you any more knowledge than somebody who joined yesterday, "sure how hard can it be putting bits of paper through a letterbox" is the order of the day and anything else will lead to online flogging and debagging, well maybe not quite but you know what i mean.
By the way i don't see this getting anything but worse as in a few years you will all be outnumbered by new starts, and even Smooth will become a old timer with outdated ways.
Nor mine. I was responding specifically to comments about “competing a duty”.
But to answer your question — lack of consistency, ie being moved from pillar to post every day, imho is the principal reason for the high churn of new-entrant staff.
Having worked as a reserve I can relate to that. However, that was back in the days when our duties were achievable.
And there is still a massive imbalance on some of our duties. How we have got to a place where some of our duties have 8 or 9 loops whereas others have barely 7 for the last 3 years is beyond me. The long promised office revision and re-pick keeps getting kicked down the road but its impact hasn't disappeared, just normalised.
Some of the guys on the lighter rounds would genuinely struggle to cope with mine which probably explains why it never gets fully cleared on my day off. Today I walked in to find a full York of parcels left from yesterday. RM's solution? Stick a new lad on to work with me to cover a single duty. FFS - just put the duties back in and fix the root problem!! This isn't efficiency, its firefighting incompetence disguised as modernisation.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Nor mine. I was responding specifically to comments about “competing a duty”.
But to answer your question — lack of consistency, ie being moved from pillar to post every day, imho is the principal reason for the high churn of new-entrant staff.
Having worked as a reserve I can relate to that. However, that was back in the days when our duties were achievable.
And there is still a massive imbalance on some of our duties. How we have got to a place where some of our duties have 8 or 9 loops whereas others have barely 7 for the last 3 years is beyond me. The long promised office revision and re-pick keeps getting kicked down the road but its impact hasn't disappeared, just normalised.
Some of the guys on the lighter rounds would genuinely struggle to cope with mine which probably explains why it never gets fully cleared on my day off. Today I walked in to find a full York of parcels left from yesterday. RM's solution? Stick a new lad on to work with me to cover a single duty. FFS - just put the duties back in and fix the root problem!! This isn't efficiency, its firefighting incompetence disguised as modernisation.
There are indeed massive imbalances in duty workloads and volume, which I think in a way does encourage posties to moan about the injustice of other posties having it easier.
What a waste of both your time. Probably ended up taking you twice as long. You’re not alone — we had similar nonsense at ours today. Sorting wasn’t finished until nearly 11.00 am. Nowhere near enough people on the sorting — despite there being plenty who know it. An incompetent and out-of-his-depth cover manager. Not enough vans to go round…. Maybe offices everywhere were in meltdown today?
It was never my intention to turn this discussion into some sort of legacy vs new starter blame culture. It's not really a question about who competes a duty better. The issues are structural and the churn speaks for itself when over half of all the new entrants that joined RM on the new contracts have now left the business. Why do you think that is?
Nor mine. I was responding specifically to comments about “competing a duty”.
But to answer your question — lack of consistency, ie being moved from pillar to post every day, imho is the principal reason for the high churn of new-entrant staff.
Nobody knows the round as well as permanent postie
likely had 20 odd years same round
first name terms with customers
Knows every nook and cranny
Customers don’t ring RM they ring him
Knows his vulnerable customers
Part of the family like
As far as I'm aware, the van driving test costs £200+ per new recruit. Then the uniform that gets worn for less than 6 months.....
RM be spending £300+ on this stuff just for a postie to leave within a year.
Should be a motivator for RM to keep staff and give out more incentives for people to stay. Maybe giving £300 to a postie on every anniversary of their start date would keep a hell of a lot of staff and save much more on recruitment costs. But then again, what do I know - I don't know the figures...
But recruiting a new staff member that then leaves within 1 year probably costs RM £1000+ total.
As far as I'm aware, the van driving test costs £200+ per new recruit. Then the uniform that gets worn for less than 6 months.....
RM be spending £300+ on this stuff just for a postie to leave within a year.
Should be a motivator for RM to keep staff and give out more incentives for people to stay. Maybe giving £300 to a postie on every anniversary of their start date would keep a hell of a lot of staff and save much more on recruitment costs. But then again, what do I know - I don't know the figures...
But recruiting a new staff member that then leaves within 1 year probably costs RM £1000+ total.
But recruiting a new staff member that then leaves within 1 year probably costs RM £1000+ total.
You have to spend money to make money. The faster people leave the less likely they are to organise and agitate for improved conditions. Remember, the company wrote off Christmas 2022 in order to deal a fatal blow to the union. The only long-term goal in a world of short-term economic thinking is pushing organised labour to extinction.
As far as I'm aware, the van driving test costs £200+ per new recruit. Then the uniform that gets worn for less than 6 months.....
RM be spending £300+ on this stuff just for a postie to leave within a year.
Should be a motivator for RM to keep staff and give out more incentives for people to stay. Maybe giving £300 to a postie on every anniversary of their start date would keep a hell of a lot of staff and save much more on recruitment costs. But then again, what do I know - I don't know the figures...
But recruiting a new staff member that then leaves within 1 year probably costs RM £1000+ total.
I doubt in the bigger picture £1,000 per new employee is that big an issue, how much does it cost them to cover the 6 weeks a long serving employee is on holiday and, probably, more likely to be also off sick?
I don't want to really get involved with the whole who does more, but don't forget a legacy 37hrs only actually works 33.40 a week because of breaks.
Where as a new contract works 37 with their breaks on top, which to my mind is the first thing that needs changing.
Nor mine. I was responding specifically to comments about “competing a duty”.
But to answer your question — lack of consistency, ie being moved from pillar to post every day, imho is the principal reason for the high churn of new-entrant staff.
Having worked as a reserve I can relate to that. However, that was back in the days when our duties were achievable.
And there is still a massive imbalance on some of our duties. How we have got to a place where some of our duties have 8 or 9 loops whereas others have barely 7 for the last 3 years is beyond me. The long promised office revision and re-pick keeps getting kicked down the road but its impact hasn't disappeared, just normalised.
Some of the guys on the lighter rounds would genuinely struggle to cope with mine which probably explains why it never gets fully cleared on my day off. Today I walked in to find a full York of parcels left from yesterday. RM's solution? Stick a new lad on to work with me to cover a single duty. FFS - just put the duties back in and fix the root problem!! This isn't efficiency, its firefighting incompetence disguised as modernisation.
There are indeed massive imbalances in duty workloads and volume, which I think in a way does encourage posties to moan about the injustice of other posties having it easier.
What a waste of both your time. Probably ended up taking you twice as long. You’re not alone — we had similar nonsense at ours today. Sorting wasn’t finished until nearly 11.00 am. Nowhere near enough people on the sorting — despite there being plenty who know it. An incompetent and out-of-his-depth cover manager. Not enough vans to go round…. Maybe offices everywhere were in meltdown today?
