Angard new terms, pay taken down?

[capaldi]

Angard Staffing is not a normal agency. Angard is part of Royal Mail Group. So, Angard, Royal Mail and Parcelforce are virtually the same company.

The cu off for the legacy contract is October 2022, not 2023. Basically before the strikes started in 2022. RM had a hiring freeze during the strikes and everyone hired after that is on the new contract.

Legacy contract has nothing to do with Angard mate.

AWR 2010 was designed way before the so-called new contracts.

AWR 2010 basically says that agency workers are entitled to the same rights, terms and conditions as someone hired directly performing the same job in the same establishment. This is why Angard workers can now use the gym and other facilities. That's also a result of the AWR 2010. In other words, October 2022 or November 2023, it doesn't really matter. If all the permanent workforce at your workplace are getting paid breaks, then you should be getting them. However, if there are RM staff (mail sorters) in your MC who don't get paid breaks, then Angard are right to cut your wages.

Read the AWR 2010 carefully.

[TobysPaw]

Angard Staffing is not a normal agency. Angard is part of Royal Mail Group. So, Angard, Royal Mail and Parcelforce are virtually the same company.

The cu off for the legacy contract is October 2022, not 2023. Basically before the strikes started in 2022. RM had a hiring freeze during the strikes and everyone hired after that is on the new contract.

Legacy contract has nothing to do with Angard mate.

AWR 2010 was designed way before the so-called new contracts.

AWR 2010 basically says that agency workers are entitled to the same rights, terms and conditions as someone hired directly performing the same job in the same establishment. This is why Angard workers can now use the gym and other facilities. That's also a result of the AWR 2010. In other words, October 2022 or November 2023, it doesn't really matter. If all the permanent workforce at your workplace are getting paid breaks, then you should be getting them. However, if there are RM staff (mail sorters) in your MC who don't get paid breaks, then Angard are right to cut your wages.

Read the AWR 2010 carefully.

By that logic though, why would ANY Angard members continue getting paid breaks if he’s not going to be entitled to them anymore?

And you could flip the statement the other way: if some RM staff mail sorters DO get paid breaks, then surely he’s entitled to them as well.

The whole situation seems rather messed up due to lack of transparency as much as anything else.

[MailSorter10]

I looked at new job ads posted by Angard on different websites. London gets higher rates, which applied previously to my mail centre, so maybe it was moved to new national rates under the guise of lower rates for people who started after certain date. All other locations are at lower, national rate.

[zacattack]

I think you need to read AWR properly. Your AWR are linked to the rights of a permanent member of staff starting at the same time so if you started after the strikes then your AWR are the same as the new RM contract.

[capaldi]

Exactly, if there's no such a person at his workplace, then he's fully entitled to get paid breaks under AWR after 12 weeks.

No, the Agency Workers Regulations 2010 (AWR 2010) do not require that an agency worker must have started at the same time as a directly hired worker to qualify for equal treatment after 12 weeks.

Here's what AWR 2010 does specify:
After 12 calendar weeks in the same role with the same hirer, an agency worker is entitled to equal treatment in basic working and employment conditions compared to a comparable direct employee.

A comparable employee is someone:

Doing the same or broadly similar work,

Working under similar conditions, and

Based at the same workplace

Timing of when the permanent employee started is irrelevant. What matters is that a comparable worker exists at the time the agency worker qualifies.

[MailSorter10]

And how would you find that out? It's a big mail centre, so there must be someone who started after October 2023. I heard about Angard person from different shift having her rate cut a few months ago.

So the only way is to take leave after rate drop, wait for a Christmas uplift and give up next year when rate drops down again after Christmas.

[capaldi]

In your case - probably yes.

[zacattack]

5.—(1) Subject to regulation 7, an agency worker (A) shall be entitled to the same basic working and employment conditions as A would be entitled to for doing the same job had A been recruited by the hirer—

(a)other than by using the services of a temporary work agency; and

(b)at the time the qualifying period commenced.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), the basic working and employment conditions are —

(a)where A would have been recruited as an employee, the relevant terms and conditions that are ordinarily included in the contracts of employees of the hirer;

(b)where A would have been recruited as a worker, the relevant terms and conditions that are ordinarily included in the contracts of workers of the hirer,
The AWR are that after 12 weeks you get the same T&Cs as if you had been hired permanently. You would be hired permanently on the new contract.
Welcome to call ACAS and check though.
The confusion is because it is very unusual for a Company in the UK to have 2 different pay scales.

[MailSorter10]

So the only way is to take leave after rate drop, wait for a Christmas uplift and give up next year when rate drops down again after Christmas.

No Christmas uplift in my mail centre. Saw jobs posted for casuals. So in terms of money, it doesn't make sense to stay in my current place. Still waiting for one more thing to be clarified, but otherwise, choice is:
1. Quit after using holiday and get back to normal life, when I don't sleep during the day and have more time.
2. Move to London based MC for higher rate (£18.18ph for night shift), but job add doesn't say if breaks are paid or not.
3. Work once in a while in current place to socialise, but not for money.

In my personal opinion, Angard came up with these new lower rates this year, but trying to force people on them retrospectively, claiming that it was administrative error. We never heard about lower rates before around April 2025, when last year's casuals learned that they won't get higher rate after 12 weeks of service. So it doesn't even make difference if you're AWR qualified or not. That's why most of them left.

[felixlee]

Same. Plan to leave after using up the remaining holiday.

[MailSorter10]

I checked Christmas rates in my mail centre today, because I had website still open on my computer. Now rates are the same as in London. So that gives me extra ammunition to show that London rates apply, not national.

I didn't get anywhere with Angard, they just stopped responding. I contacted two unions now and also got some legal advice. To have legal case, I need to get unlawful wage cut, which didn't happen yet, so have to do one shift at lower rate.

[IphoneAddict]

Curious to see what happens to me, as while I technically started in September 2022, I only did shifts occasionally, not gaining AWR status until well into 2023, then going on to lose AWR later in 2023, not regaining it until April 2024, (and am still on it). I have not yet heard anything from Angard about losing paid breaks and a pay cut.

Only reason I mention this is that reading between the lines it’s likely that my MC is the same one that MailSorter10 works at.

[MailSorter10]

I'm raising formal complaint today, copying union guy in the email, as advised by him.

Doing shift today, which should be at lower rate. That's of course, if it's not cancelled.
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And rate was cut, 20% loss on 6h15min + 1h15min overtime, 40 minute break unpaid, even though actual break is only 30 minutes.

[Warbo]

I'm raising formal complaint today, copying union guy in the email, as advised by him.

Doing shift today, which should be at lower rate. That's of course, if it's not cancelled.
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And rate was cut, 20% loss on 6h15min + 1h15min overtime, 40 minute break unpaid, even though actual break is only 30 minutes.

Is the formal complaint through ACAS? Angard complaint is their policy. Recognised by themselves. Acas is industry/legislation recognised.
The break time for 6hr - 7hr59 mins is 40 mins or 60 mins meal break 10 mins relax break.
Keep us updated,

[MailSorter10]

It's complaint through Angard internal procedure.